Counting

[BillyMac]

Today, with every game, from third grade on up, being taped, in some cases on a mom's cell phone, we all must show these visible counts at all times. No more, "Oh, I forgot to start my ten second count, I guess that I'll pick it up at, oh, three", or, "Gee, he's been closely guarded for a second or so, so I guess I'll pick up my count at, oh, let's see, two", like in the olden days, not that I ever did anything like that.

[Johnny Ringo]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I still have to ask. What makes you ask?

What makes anyone ask anything on this site? Looking for an answer or wanting to have a discussion. In my case, looking for an answer.

Thanks!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Is it a required mechanic to count 10-seconds and 5-seconds?

We don't visibly count for a 3-second violation.

For those following along without the benefit of the books:

3 second count - Silent, not visible
5 second throw-in count - Silent, visible
5 second closely guarded - Silent, visible
10 second backcourt - Silent, visible
10 second free throw- Silent**, visible*

* Done using a much more subtle visual count, usually a wrist flick
** Sometimes done so silently the official who is counting can't even hear it. It's just as well, he has lot of other stuff to worry about

I think this guy has a GREAT count mechanic!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Is there a difference between silently and visibly?

Did you really ask that? Is there a difference between your ears and your eyes? Are you expecting a new Christmas carol, "Visible Night"?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

What makes anyone ask anything on this site? Looking for an answer or wanting to have a discussion. In my case, looking for an answer.

Thanks!

Often times questions are posed here due to situations that have come up in games, or debates that have come up in bars, or discussions that have come up at local association meetings. Just as often, those situations/debates/discussions are as interesting to us as the question itself.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Today, with every game, from third grade on up, being taped, in some cases on a mom's cell phone, we all must show these visible counts at all times. No more, "Oh, I forgot to start my ten second count, I guess that I'll pick it up at, oh, three", or, "Gee, he's been closely guarded for a second or so, so I guess I'll pick up my count at, oh, let's see, two", like in the olden days, not that I ever did anything like that.

Has being taped on anyone's cell phone every really caused anybody a problem?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Has being taped on anyone's cell phone every really caused anybody a problem?

Yeah, but it had nothing to do with officiating!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Thanks. Rough crowd here all of the time. Don't understand why everyone has to be such smart asses

Many of you are experts at what you do and if you did not know it, a lot of players, coaches and fans come to this site to read and learn.

They don't have rule books or official's manuals and most will never have or see anything like.

You have a rule book. You've posted here for three years. You stated, "We don't visibly count for a 3-second violation." Are we now to assume that you are a fan and not an official?

Since we've always assumed you were an official, I don't think anyone is being a smartass when they want to know why you've taken a very basic aspect of officiating and not looked it up in the rule book or mechanics manual.

Then, when you're given the rule and quote, you asked for it again. We assumed you are an official. Are we now to make another assumption about you based on having to give you the appropriate reference twice?

[BillyMac]

Not that I ever engaged in such activity, but ...

Originally Posted by just another ref

Has being taped on anyone's cell phone every really caused anybody a problem?

I had a parent show me a cell phone video between periods of a scrimmage that showed me making the correct call on a last second shot that didn't beat the horn. It could have just as easily been an incorrect call, in a real game, and the parent could have just as easily given the video to the coach.

Now I would feel bad, but wouldn't be embarrassed, by such an incorrect call on a "bang bang" play like the one I described, but I would certainly be embarrassed if I made a crucial five second, or ten second call, and was later shown a video where I only made four, or nine, visible counts, where both the rulebook, and the manual, state that we are supposed to make such counts visible.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

....I would certainly be embarrassed if I made a crucial five second, or ten second call, and was later shown a video where I only made four, or nine, visible counts, where both the rulebook, and the manual, state that we are supposed to make such counts visible.

I wouldn't. The only way I can see that this could possibly be an issue would be on a closely guarded count. The others have a definite indication of when they should start, and if my visible count is a beat behind the count, I can't imagine that anybody would ever notice, and if they did, I can't see how they could make an argument out of it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I can't imagine that anybody would ever notice, and if they did, I can't see how they could make an argument out of it.

"Hey Mr. BillyMac. Remember when you were here last week, and you made that closely guarded count against us in the last two minutes, in the game that we lost by one point, that kept us from any chance of making the state tournament? Sure you remember. Well, Ms. Johnson, our point guard's mother, that's right, the good looking chick who always sits behind our bench, well, she showed me a video on her cell phone, I've looked at it several times, and it clearly shows you making only four visible counts, with you blowing that #@%* whistle in synch with the last count. Ain't you supposed to show all your counts? What's that? You're asking me why we hired you for another game after that #@%* call? Well, Ms. Johnson is also an influential member of the PTA, she's a single mom, thinks that you're quite handsome, and wants to meet you."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Hey Mr. BillyMac. Remember when you were here last week, and you made that closely guarded count against us in the last two minutes, in the game that we lost by one point, that kept us from any chance of making the state tournament? Sure you remember. Well, Ms. Johnson, our point guard's mother, that's right, the good looking chick who always sits behind our bench, well, she showed me a video on her cell phone, I've looked at it several times, and it clearly shows you making only four visible counts.........

I always say when a person criticizes the mechanics, it's the same as saying "Good call." If they thought the call itself was bad, they would criticize that.
Tell Ms. Johnson that the violation was for being closely guarded for 5 seconds, not for 5 arm swings, and if she says that anybody was watching that closely at the time, and was put at a disadvantage by the visible count being a second behind the actual count, tell her politely that it didn't happen.

[BillyMac]

... It's reported you've been drinking and a running round with men and goin' wild.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Tell Ms. Johnson that the violation was for being closely guarded for 5 seconds, not for 5 arm swings, and if she says that anybody was watching that closely at the time, and was put at a disadvantage by the visible count being a second behind the actual count, tell her politely that it didn't happen.

I'll be sure to tell her, on your behalf, Saturday night. It's our first date. I hope to discover what "goin' wild" means.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... It's reported you've been drinking and a running round with men and goin' wild.



I'll be sure to tell her, on your behalf, Saturday night. It's our first date. I hope to discover what "goin' wild" means.

I would avoid the subject entirely if I were you. No, I get it. If you don't score, you're just looking for someplace else to put the blame.

Sound familiar?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Sound familiar?

It's always her, it's never me.