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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2001, 07:12pm
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Cool

I worked an elementary school tournament this week.
Strange, but I've done much stranger things. They requested a body.

My partner is a five year official.
The game is a championship. One of many levels that day... maybe 5th grade. No matter.
The score is 19-6 only seconds left in the quarter.

Trailing team had the ball just inside the arc.
The player stopped her dribble.
The horn sounds.
The player begins her shot a second later and, lo and behold, it went in the hole!

I (trail and umpire) politely (small movement) wave it off; partner (ref and lead) makes a big "Count It". As I walk toward her, she says to me, without even looking my way, "I'm counting that no matter what anyone says!"

Hey! I heard that. I even sorta understood it, but it was wrong.
I walk to position to start the fourth, as she goes to the table ... for something.

After I get the teams for the next quarter, I went to the endline, some fan says, "Hey, Ref! You know you were right, and she was wrong on that last shot."

I looked at my shoes. I ignored him, too.
Sometimes, you just have to get done and get out.
The better team won.

mick

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2001, 07:26pm
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Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 4,801
Oy!

End of game shot, where it wouldn't effect the outcome, and it was very close - might count it.

If everyone can tell it was clearly after the horn, you'd better have a damn good explaination!
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2001, 08:47pm
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Sad day.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2001, 09:39pm
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 378
Mick,

Given the level of ball and, most likely, laid back nature of the game, how about telling her with a smile, "Tell you what: When you're the trail on a last second shot, you go ahead and count it when it shouldn't. But since this one's my call, no bucket." Her being the "R" is irrelevant, though if it happened in the LAST quarter, then let it stand. Just don't know if I coulda kept silent on that, but obviously it worked out fine in the end.

BTW, are you going to the Trainers' meeting this weekend? Probably not, if you were there last year like me. But, I'm presenting first thing Saturday morning, so if you're there, be sure to say "Hi."
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2001, 10:11pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Darn.

Quote:
Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker
BTW, are you going to the Trainers' meeting this weekend? Probably not, if you were there last year like me. But, I'm presenting first thing Saturday morning, so if you're there, be sure to say "Hi."
No trip this weekend, Todd.
But, I'll catch U.P. with ya.
Good luck with that.
mick

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2001, 11:18pm
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Good post Todd. That's a very polite way of standing U.P. for one's self!
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2001, 08:46am
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Posts: 1,051
No offense, but making calls like that and she will be a 10, 15, and 20 year official working Elementary games.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2001, 04:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker
Her being the "R" is irrelevant
Actually, it is very relevant. 2-5-3 grants the authority to determine a disputed basket to the Referee.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2001, 04:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker
Her being the "R" is irrelevant
Actually, it is very relevant. 2-5-3 grants the authority to determine a disputed basket to the Referee.
Yeah, but somewhere else in 2 tells us that no
official may overturn the ruling of another official.
This was not "disputed", Mick made the call and was not
questioned by either team.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2001, 04:45pm
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Unhappy figgerin'

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker
Her being the "R" is irrelevant
Actually, it is very relevant. 2-5-3 grants the authority to determine a disputed basket to the Referee.
Yeah, but somewhere else in 2 tells us that no
official may overturn the ruling of another official.
This was not "disputed", Mick made the call and was not
questioned by either team.
Dan,
Well, ... I made a signal. But, I didn't protest her call.
The basket stood.
I figgered she was ref (as Mark said), I figgered these were 10 year-olds, I figgered the quality of play of each team, and I knew the call was set in her mind. Heck, she said that!
(I know you have seen the fixed jaw of a determined woman.)
We didn't discuss it. I figgered I didn't want to go down that alley. I figgered only one of us should look silly.
mick
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2001, 04:51pm
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Posts: 426
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Talking Re: figgerin'

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker
Her being the "R" is irrelevant
Actually, it is very relevant. 2-5-3 grants the authority to determine a disputed basket to the Referee.
Yeah, but somewhere else in 2 tells us that no
official may overturn the ruling of another official.
This was not "disputed", Mick made the call and was not
questioned by either team.
Dan,
Well, ... I made a signal. But, I didn't protest her call.
The basket stood.
I figgered she was ref (as Mark said), I figgered these were 10 year-olds, I figgered the quality of play of each team, and I knew the call was set in her mind. Heck, she said that!
(I know you have seen the fixed jaw of a determined woman.)
We didn't discuss it. I figgered I didn't want to go down that alley. I figgered only one of us should look silly.
mick
I say... good figgering
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 05, 2001, 09:07am
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Location: Just north of hell
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Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Re: figgerin'

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker
Her being the "R" is irrelevant
Actually, it is very relevant. 2-5-3 grants the authority to determine a disputed basket to the Referee.
Yeah, but somewhere else in 2 tells us that no
official may overturn the ruling of another official.
This was not "disputed", Mick made the call and was not
questioned by either team.
Dan,
Well, ... I made a signal. But, I didn't protest her call.
The basket stood.
I figgered she was ref (as Mark said), I figgered these were 10 year-olds, I figgered the quality of play of each team, and I knew the call was set in her mind. Heck, she said that!
(I know you have seen the fixed jaw of a determined woman.)
We didn't discuss it. I figgered I didn't want to go down that alley. I figgered only one of us should look silly.
mick
Mick, I'm not saying that you did the wrong thing,
it sounds like you handled it perfectly. I'm just
questioning whether she had the right to overturn
your call.
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