Counting

WeekendRef · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 07:56am

On every inbounds play the defensive team counts out loud (Ok, they are yelling) 1 one thousand , 2 one thousand , 3 one thousand and so on . While I appreciate the help in getting to five seconds (when I count above 2 I often get confused)I found this quite annoying the other night when it happened . After the second time I gently reminded the ladies that I could handle the counting just fine . The coach hears this and wants to know why they can't count out loud (He asked in a friendly manner) . I told him that I will ref the game , he can coach and the girls can play but there will be no mixing of the 3. I suppose I could have called it unsporting if they ignored my warnings but I want to hear what you folks think I could have taken a different course of action .

Jurassic Referee · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 08:11am

It's a technical foul right out of the book, if you want to call it.

NFHS rule 10-4-1(b)- "Bench personnel shall not commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts of conduct such as attempting to influence an official's decision".

It's plain that they're trying to "influence" you into giving them a call. Personally, I won't let them do it. Ever. Tell them to knock it off, or else.

mick · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 08:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by WeekendRef
On every inbounds play the defensive team counts out loud (Ok, they are yelling) 1 one thousand , 2 one thousand , 3 one thousand and so on .

WeekendRef,
Have you timed that?
It's way slow! 6-7 seconds to get to "Five".
mick

WeekendRef · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 09:06am

JR - I actually looked at 10-4-1 when I got home that night but it said "bench personnel" so I didn't think that covered it but if push comes to shove that is the ruling I would have quoted...
Mick- these girls were counting real fast

Jimgolf · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 09:17am

They are attempting to show you up. Clear unsportsmanlike conduct. In a rec league, I'd give them a warning since they may not know better, but in a school game, automatic technical foul. The coach should know better. There is no place for Cameron Crazies on a team's bench.

WeekendRef · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 09:27am

The girls counting were on the court and NOT on the bench...actually the girl who was defending the inbounder was the one who was doing all of the counting . I don't really know if that changes anything .

mick · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 09:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by WeekendRef
Mick- these girls were counting real fast

Okeedokee! Then they can squeeze it in. (Some girls can speak really quickly

)
While they are counting aloud, they are losing their breath.
So much of that weird coaching stuff penalizes the coach's team. Advantage ---> Offense.
mick

rainmaker · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 09:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by WeekendRef
I told him that I will ref the game , he can coach and the girls can play but there will be no mixing of the 3.

I think this is very, very good! Great job, Week. Oooo, that doesn't sound right! Great job, Mr. EndRef. Gracious sakes, you're going to have to reveal your real name.

mick · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 09:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Gracious sakes, you're going to have to reveal your real name.

And it only took uu about 1-1/2 years.
mick

rainmaker · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 09:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Gracious sakes, you're going to have to reveal your real name.

And it only took uu about 1-1/2 years.
mick

Yea, but "rain" wasn't a bad nickname. Would there be anyone that would want to be called, "Week"?

WeekendRef · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 10:27am

Maker ,(wait that doesn't sound right either as it has some sexist overtones)If "week" is the worst thing I am called when officiating (Or on the board) then I know I am doing a good job

I worked a mens league game last night (against my better judgement) and my partner was a good , veteran official but he made some calls against Team A that were in my opinion really questionable . The Team A was really giving him a hard time and it seemed that he was going out of his way to call things on them and some of those calls were plays directly in front of me that IMO were not fouls or violations.. I said nothing to him about it during the game and when Team A team asked me why he made those calls in front of me I just told them that he had a better angle . At the end of the game which Team A lost on a 4 point play with 2 seconds left there was nearly a incident with my partner and about 4 of Team A members . IMO my partner should have walked away but he stayed and argued with them which could have gotten ugly .
My question is what if anything do you say to your partner if you feel he went out of his way to penalize a team ? Keep in mind I am talking about a mens league game and NOT High School or any other kids games because I feel that they are completely different animals .

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 10:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by WeekendRef
Maker ,(wait that doesn't sound right either as it has some sexist overtones)If "week" is the worst thing I am called when officiating (Or on the board) then I know I am doing a good job

Good one! Although there are those who believe that we are ALL (men and women) made in the image of the Maker, so it may not be as sexist as you think.

About the men's league game, I don't know. I wouldn't say anything to him, but then I don't do men's league at all, so I don't know the etiquette of it. If you thought it was a pattern, you might say something to the assignor, such as refusing to work with that guy again. That gets the message across without being a tattle-tale. And someone else has to deal with it besides you.

[Edited by rainmaker on Aug 5th, 2004 at 11:53 AM]

tomegun · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 11:10am

Things like this happen at different levels. Use it to your advantage. There might be something you can work on despite what he is doing. Depending on his standing where you live, you might have more to lose by refusing to work with him than you have to gain. Sometimes is isn't right but it is what it is.

ChuckElias · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 11:24am

Without being at your game, I think that the girls who were counting were neither trying to show you up nor trying to influence your decision. I think they are trying to rattle the inbounder. It's a way of adding pressure on the inbound pass. I would not give a T for it, although I would try to handle it as you did: "Ladies, thanks for the help, but I'll handle the counting."

Just my $.02

Camron Rust · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 05, 2004, 11:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Without being at your game, I think that the girls who were counting were neither trying to show you up nor trying to influence your decision. I think they are trying to rattle the inbounder. It's a way of adding pressure on the inbound pass. I would not give a T for it, although I would try to handle it as you did: "Ladies, thanks for the help, but I'll handle the counting."

Just my $.02

Either that or a self reminder that they only need to keep the pressure on for 5 seconds. May help them keep their intensity up.

I wouldn't even consider this alone as an issue. If it followed up with a comment about not calling 5, then the story changes.