T Up a Fan?!?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm putting myself in the place of the parent here rather than the official.

1. You will not stop me, and any attempt will be met with force. It may or may not be right, but that's how it is; so your best bet is to stay out of the way. You will not stop me from being at my child's side. You will not determine whether I'm interfering with medical personnel. Don't even try it.

2. You are not qualified to determine whether I am of sound mind. Any attempts to get between me and my child by you are likely to affect my sound mind, however. I'm normally not a violent person, nor are most people. Try separating a parent from their child, however, and things change drastically and quickly.

3. Perhaps, but you do not get to make that choice. The parent does.

Why do you insist in telling a parent in this situation what's best for them? How old are you again? Do you have children?

Medical first responders are trained to deal with parents here, because they have to get their input and permission to so much as give them pain killers.

And to answer a question Nevada asked before. Would I go in the ambulance? If there was room, you're damned right I would. If not, I'd be there ASAP. Let's just say the odds of me beating the ambulance to the hospital are pretty good.

Concerning riding in the ambulance, here the only people allowed in the ambulance in the ambulance is the driver & ambulance crew along with the patient, no one else is allowed to ride into the hospital, even when there is room, due to new insurance that has been put into effect.

In the cases where people rush out onto the field/court after the final horn sounds, some of the blame is that officials are not fully enforcing the rules, while some of the blame is that the crowd control/security has been told to allow it, even though it is considered unsporting conduct.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning riding in the ambulance, here the only people allowed in the ambulance in the ambulance is the driver & ambulance crew along with the patient, no one else is allowed to ride into the hospital, even when there is room, due to new insurance that has been put into effect.

In the cases where people rush out onto the field/court after the final horn sounds, some of the blame is that officials are not fully enforcing the rules, while some of the blame is that the crowd control/security has been told to allow it, even though it is considered unsporting conduct.

Enforce what after the final horn? If an official is doing his job, he's getting the heck out of dodge as soon as the horn is blowing. As soon as were away from the visual confines of the court, our jurisdiction ends. Spectators rushing the court is a game management issue. And in reality, how many times are fans really rushing on the court? Once, maybe twice a season at most?

And the point about the Derrick situation is there was a technical violation of the rules but the officials used common sense. The head coach was on the court during a live ball and was not beckoned.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning riding in the ambulance, here the only people allowed in the ambulance in the ambulance is the driver & ambulance crew along with the patient, no one else is allowed to ride into the hospital, even when there is room, due to new insurance that has been put into effect.

For crying out loud, this is so irrelevant it's not even funny. It's like arguing with my 9 year old. It's partly my fault for answering Nevada's red herring, however....

A quick search on the 'net will show that policies vary all over the place due to insurance and other reasons. Some will only allow it in the case of children, others will allow the parents to ride in the front seat.

Again, not relevant, though.

Originally Posted by chseagle

In the cases where people rush out onto the field/court after the final horn sounds, some of the blame is that officials are not fully enforcing the rules, while some of the blame is that the crowd control/security has been told to allow it, even though it is considered unsporting conduct.

Again, this displays your thorough lack of understanding the rules. Once the game is over, the officials do not hold any responsibility for fans coming onto the court or field. How in the world are you putting that on the officials? I'm seriously curious about that statement.

It's 100% game management/crowd control. And, FWIW, I wouldn't expect a staff of 6 people to prevent a crowd from storming the court after a big win. That's when you just sit back and try to take names for charges later if the school chooses to do so.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

For crying out loud, this is so irrelevant it's not even funny. It's like arguing with my 9 year old.

It's Christmas. You shouldn't insult your 9-year old.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's Christmas. You shouldn't insult your 9-year old.

I've already apologized to her. She's too busy with her Christmas loot to notice.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Again, this displays your thorough lack of understanding the rules. Once the game is over, the officials do not hold any responsibility for fans coming onto the court or field. How in the world are you putting that on the officials? I'm seriously curious about that statement.

It's 100% game management/crowd control. And, FWIW, I wouldn't expect a staff of 6 people to prevent a crowd from storming the court after a big win. That's when you just sit back and try to take names for charges later if the school chooses to do so.

Most of the times I've seen people rush the court, there's been more than 6 people working crowd control. Most, if not all the time, the crowd storms the court/field, the losing team has not been granted the opportunity to exit to the locker rooms. How can that not be considered unsporting conduct, especially if the fans say something to the losing team that has a negative impact or could cause a fight?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Most of the times I've seen people rush the court, there's been more than 6 people working crowd control. Most, if not all the time, the crowd storms the court/field, the losing team has not been granted the opportunity to exit to the locker rooms. How can that not be considered unsporting conduct, especially if the fans say something to the losing team that has a negative impact or could cause a fight?

You think the officials bear some responsibility for actions that take place after their job is done. They're off the court, halfway to the locker room, and you expect them to do something about the crowd? What rule do you suggest they invoke here?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You think the officials bear some responsibility for actions that take place after their job is done. They're off the court, halfway to the locker room, and you expect them to do something about the crowd? What rule do you suggest they invoke here?

I was thinking of the circumstances where the officials are not off the court due to the crowd rushing onto the court. Like I mentioned before, I'm not putting the full responsibility on the officials, as it also falls upon the game management & crowd control.

In the situation, like I mentioned before, the losing team is unable to leave the floor due to the fans rushing the court & some of the fans say something to the losing team that could incite a fight or other negative relations.

Couldn't rule 2-8-1 be put into use here? If the officials cannot leave the floor.

If the officials are off the floor, yes it does fall upon the game management & crowd control to get the situation under control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I was thinking of the circumstances where the officials are not off the court due to the crowd rushing onto the court. Like I mentioned before, I'm not putting the full responsibility on the officials, as it also falls upon the game management & crowd control.

In the situation, like I mentioned before, the losing team is unable to leave the floor due to the fans rushing the court & some of the fans say something to the losing team that could incite a fight or other negative relations.

Couldn't rule 2-8-1 be put into use here? If the officials cannot leave the floor.

If the officials are off the floor, yes it does fall upon the game management & crowd control to get the situation under control.

I know you don't think they bear full responsibility. I'm telling you they bear zero responsibility. If they aren't off the floor, there are other problems. Let me put this clearly for you.

Officials have no crowd control responsibilities. None.

That all falls, 100%, on game site management.

If the officials can't get off the floor due to the crowd, that's a problem that will be reported . Part of GM responsibility is to allow the officials to leave quickly.

No, rule 2-8-1 cannot be used in this case. Read it carefully, please.

I'll pull the relevant portion out for you: "The officials may may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game."

The game is over, so that's impossible. This rule is pretty much there for those cases where the fans get together and decide to throw toilet paper or empty water bottles or diapers onto the floor during the game; at least that's how I understand it. Johnny's dad shouting obscenities doesn't count, either.

If game management cannot properly run a facililty, it's not on the officials to enforce any rules to help them.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I know you don't think they bear full responsibility. I'm telling you they bear zero responsibility. If they aren't off the floor, there are other problems. Let me put this clearly for you.

Officials have no crowd control responsibilities. None.

That all falls, 100%, on game site management.

If the officials can't get off the floor due to the crowd, that's a problem that will be reported . Part of GM responsibility is to allow the officials to leave quickly.

No, rule 2-8-1 cannot be used in this case. Read it carefully, please.

I'll pull the relevant portion out for you: "The officials may may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game."

The game is over, so that's impossible. This rule is pretty much there for those cases where the fans get together and decide to throw toilet paper or empty water bottles or diapers onto the floor during the game; at least that's how I understand it. Johnny's dad shouting obscenities doesn't count, either.

If game management cannot properly run a facililty, it's not on the officials to enforce any rules to help them.

Thanks for the clarification on that.

So basically all the officials can do then is write & send in a report tot heir assignor & local/state association where the host could possibly have sanctions put against them for improper crowd control procedures. Or is there more that I'm missing?

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Like I mentioned before, I'm not putting the full responsibility on the officials...

You're not putting anything anywhere, hypothetically or otherwise. You don't have the authority, nor the knowledge. You hold no license, and your certification won't even get you a cup of coffee at an AA meeting (it's free). In fact, it would appear that your contribution here is primarily that of unintended comic relief. Which grows less and less appealing by the post, because the intent is to be taken seriously, which is not a possibility.

[icallfouls]

bbcoach7, After reading your posts on this thread, all I can say is....

BRAVO! BRAVO!