T Up a Fan?!?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

160+ posts in this thread and I just can't help myself, so here goes:

I don't care if a coach or parent is beckoned or not. If a kid is injured to the point where a coach and/or parent feels like he/she needs to come out, I've beckoned them (maybe retroactively). My first supervisor gave me this piece of wisdom back in the late 1980s and I've lived by it since then.

Then I get the hell out of the way and let those who have a stake in this do their thing.

On top of this, if the parent says something to me due to an emotional response of seeing her kid hurt on the court, I'm likely going to give that a pass, too. Same with the coach, although I may give the coach a bit less rope.

Under no circumstances would I ever issue a technical foul for this or banish anyone from a gym. I'd have to have left my common sense at home to choose the nuclear option for something like this.

Rich - everything you state here makes absolute sense. Thanks.

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You think this way because you are not well-versed in the rules. Too bad that you don't read more and write less.

2-2-3 . . . The officials’ jurisdiction extends through periods when the game
may be momentarily stopped for any reason.

only a moron would tread into these shark infested waters ,but here goes ; i stepped on the court on my way to the stands going to watch a H.S. V. game and i didnt get thrown out. total anarchy ! 2. human nature cant be stifled and a parent won't be denied access to a hurt child , no matter how minor it may subsequently turn out to be . rational thinking is not what it should be at these times. 3. thanks to all the pro's here that would maintain the highest standards of the profession while using sensible judgement that wouldn't escalate an unpleasant and tense situation. lesson learned, next?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

160+ posts in this thread and I just can't help myself, so here goes:

I don't care if a coach or parent is beckoned or not. If a kid is injured to the point where a coach and/or parent feels like he/she needs to come out, I've beckoned them (maybe retroactively). My first supervisor gave me this piece of wisdom back in the late 1980s and I've lived by it since then.

Then I get the hell out of the way and let those who have a stake in this do their thing.

On top of this, if the parent says something to me due to an emotional response of seeing her kid hurt on the court, I'm likely going to give that a pass, too. Same with the coach, although I may give the coach a bit less rope.

Under no circumstances would I ever issue a technical foul for this or banish anyone from a gym. I'd have to have left my common sense at home to choose the nuclear option for something like this.

Very well said, Rich.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

On top of this, if the parent says something to me due to an emotional response of seeing her kid hurt on the court, I'm likely going to give that a pass, too. Same with the coach, although I may give the coach a bit less rope.

I think that this is an important point, and another excellent reason for getting away from the injured player ASAP.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

A parent running out onto the court to be by the side of their injured child, is not considered at the time to be of sound mind & judgement.

A parent can still be involved in the decisions of a child's medical treatment without being right there directly next to the child.

Oxymoron.

A parent running on to the floor to check their child isn't of sound mind and judgment but is allowed to make decisions on their medical treatment?

Wow, are you an attorney, or did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning riding in the ambulance, here the only people allowed in the ambulance in the ambulance is the driver & ambulance crew along with the patient, no one else is allowed to ride into the hospital, even when there is room, due to new insurance that has been put into effect.

In the cases where people rush out onto the field/court after the final horn sounds, some of the blame is that officials are not fully enforcing the rules, while some of the blame is that the crowd control/security has been told to allow it, even though it is considered unsporting conduct.

Well, here we have it. We've looked for an expert that can answer any question we have in any instance of life and he is now here. chseagle appears to be an expert on everything. My young firend, you would do wise to read more and post less.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Oxymoron.

A parent running on to the floor to check their child isn't of sound mind and judgment but is allowed to make decisions on their medical treatment?

Wow, are you an attorney, or did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?



Well, here we have it. We've looked for an expert that can answer any question we have in any instance of life and he is now here. chseagle appears to be an expert on everything. My young friend, you would do wise to read more and post less.

You speaketh the truth BBR

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

you would do wise to read more and post less.

Some of the best advice on this entire thread as it applies to the rest of the internet as well.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Some of the best advice on this entire thread as it applies to the rest of the internet as well.

A truly ironic post

[just another ref]

Another question occurred to me: All this talk about ejecting the fan.
"one way ticket to the parking lot" etc.

What gives the official the power to do this?

2-8-1:

.....home management is responsible......

.....officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way.......

.....officials shall stop the game until .......management resolves the situation....

Resolving the situation is in the eye of the beholder, is it not.

Picture this. A game is going on in, oh, let's say Las Vegas for example.
An irate fan throws a bottle on the court. Official stops the game, points out the offender. "I want that guy out of here."

The head game management guy (assisted by the crowd control guy) says,
"Not necessary. He took his meds. He's calm now. It won't happen again.
The situation is resolved. Let us proceed."

Then what happens?

[Atreyu]

I tend to read more and post less.
But I just had to say it... Wow.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

All this talk about ejecting the fan.
"one way ticket to the parking lot" etc.

What gives the official the power to do this?
2-8-1:

.....home management is responsible......

.....officials shall stop the game until .......management resolves the situation....

Resolving the situation is in the eye of the beholder, is it not.

An irate fan throws a bottle on the court. Official stops the game, points out the offender. "I want that guy out of here."

The head game management guy (assisted by the crowd control guy) says,
"Not necessary. He took his meds. He's calm now. It won't happen again.
The situation is resolved. Let us proceed."

Then what happens?

Home management is responsible for the fans. If they assure me that they've resolved the situation, that's good enough for me. However, that's a one-time caveat in that particular game. If anything further happens, then I will stop the game and get the fan removed. And the game will stay stopped until the fan is completely outa there.

No matter what, a full report should go in, post-game. Detail the incident(fan throwing bottle) as well as the resolution(home management assuring you that they took proper steps). Put the onus for fan behavior where it really belongs-- on home management and whomever your report goes to. And let whom your report goes to second-guess game management and set procedure if they feel compelled to do so. That way you did your job and nobody can second-guess you.

JMO.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Home management is responsible for the fans. If they assure me that they've resolved the situation, that's good enough for me. However, that's a one-time caveat in that particular game. If anything further happens, then I will stop the game and get the fan removed. And the game will stay stopped until the fan is completely outa there.

No matter what, a full report should go in, post-game. Detail the incident(fan throwing bottle) as well as the resolution(home management assuring you that they took proper steps). Put the onus for fan behavior where it really belongs-- on home management and whomever your report goes to. And let whom your report goes to second-guess game management and set procedure if they feel compelled to do so. That way you did your job and nobody can second-guess you.

.JMO

That was YOU?????????

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No matter what, a full report should go in, post-game. Detail the incident(fan throwing bottle) as well as the resolution(home management assuring you that they took proper steps). Put the onus for fan behavior where it really belongs-- on home management and whomever your report goes to. And let whom your report goes to second-guess game management and set procedure if they feel compelled to do so. That way you did your job and nobody can second-guess you.

JMO.

Great advice JR! Document, document, document

My wife's a nurse, and a main principle they have in the medical field is "if it isn't written down, it didn't happen". We have similar standards in the engineering field.

Details are important, but only include facts or direct observations - avoid opinions. Initially, write everything down as soon as possible after the incident. Keep the actual report short as possible and to the point - don't be overly verbose. Include verbatim quotes, especially when it involves obscenities, accusations, threats or an alleged statement of fact by another party that you are expected to accept (i.e.; game management). Writing it from third person perspective helps.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Details are important, but only include facts or direct observations - avoid opinions. Initially, write everything down as soon as possible after the incident. Keep the actual report short as possible and to the point - don't be overly verbose. Include verbatim quotes, especially when it involves obscenities, accusations, threats or an alleged statement of fact by another party that you are expected to accept (i.e.; game management). Writing it from third person perspective helps.

And that's great advice for all of us too, Tim.

[Nevadaref]

Look for the kid from the student section! He's the one in the red T-shirt and blue jeans.

YouTube - NVECapture.0008.mpg