Funny Vid / Palming-Carrying?

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You need to determine whether the ball came to rest in his hand (that's what ends a dribble). If it did, you can call palming or traveling or illegal dribble. If not (and that's the general opinion here), it's play on. You might want to give the former defender time to find his shoes, though.

I guess I'm in the minority then because I do think the ball comes to rest in his hand. I would call traveling here.

[mathuc]

Just because the ball comes up high does not mean a palm or carry. For a carry the ball has to come to rest in your hand - there is no height restriction on how high you can bounce a ball. players can still be dribbling the ball with it bouncing up as high as they can reach upwards, as long as the player does not let it come to rest in his hands. Also, as mentioned earlier there is no restriction of how many steps you can and cannot take while dribbling.

I would venture to say that you're in the minority because you are not calling it by the rulebook...

[Adam]

The upward force of the ball (due to the hard dribble preceding it) makes it appear as if the ball has come to rest in his hand, but it's not the case, IMO.
It's just a high dribble, perfectly legal in spite of what you hear from the fans.

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I guess I'm in the minority then because I do think the ball comes to rest in his hand. I would call traveling here.

Explain to me how a ball can come to rest in a hand when the hand is not under the ball....

Call a travel here, be prepared to call a Tech on the coach and be prepared to discuss this with your partners who have to be on the floor with you.

Just because plays look odd/strange/etc does not make them illegal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

True, however you could make the argument that the dribble ended, then he took steps, therefore making it a travel.

No way I'm allowing that play in one of my games. Have to imagine that some sort of unfair advantage would be gained there.

There is nothing unfair unless the rules are violated. My point is that it does not look like the dribble ends. You cannot call it a violation if nothing illegal is done. It is only a violation if the ball comes to rest in the hand of the dribbler and it does not look like that is at all possible with the hand on top of the ball. And like others have said, you need to review the rules on this one. You seem to be saying it is illegal simply because you do not like the action. That is not why we call violations or fouls. We have to have some rules basis for those calls. And this looks very suspect to call a violation. And if you nitpick it too, you better call every little "looks funny" action or dribble.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I guess I'm in the minority then because I do think the ball comes to rest in his hand. I would call traveling here.

You cannot call a travel when a player is dribbling. That is impossible under the rules. If you said it was a carry/palming, I could at least go there with you on some level because that is a judgment issue. Just understand that you will be judged by your judgment to make these calls. It is much worse to call something that is not supported by rule at all.

And you do not have brand new officials saying this to you. Take me out of this, these are pretty veteran and experienced officials saying you are not using the proper rules on this.

Peace

[mathuc]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

Explain to me how a ball can come to rest in a hand when the hand is not under the ball....

Call a travel here, be prepared to call a Tech on the coach and be prepared to discuss this with your partners who have to be on the floor with you.

Just because plays look odd/strange/etc does not make them illegal.

Being 6'6" and having a huge hand...uhh, that would be palming the ball (i.e. using the upward force of the ball from the dribble to palm/grab the ball and control it) Get the idea? so, I can take a ball, dribble it and catch it in one hand without putting my hand underneath it... then I can move it laterally/horizontally as I wish... That would be a carry or end of dribble without putting my hand under the ball, as the ball has come to rest in my hand

[Back In The Saddle]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. If your hand is large enough that you can grip the ball from above, and you do so, that is illegal. But merely using the upward force of the ball pressing against the hand to control it, not illegal.

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by mathuc

Being 6'6" and having a huge hand...uhh, that would be palming the ball (i.e. using the upward force of the ball from the dribble to palm/grab the ball and control it) Get the idea? so, I can take a ball, dribble it and catch it in one hand without putting my hand underneath it... then I can move it laterally/horizontally as I wish... That would be a carry or end of dribble without putting my hand under the ball, as the ball has come to rest in my hand

good point... i was using the video of as an example and that kid is not "palming" the ball but point taken.

My original point still stands though... just cuz it looks odd does not make it illegal... the move in the video is legal and is not a violation.

[mathuc]

I edited and added clarity... I agree with you to a point. gripping the ball from the top while dribbling would be illegal IF you resumed dribbling. Simply performing that action to stop your dribble is not illegal (but I think you meant that, so we're on the same page)

[representing]

fundamental of physics. Everything comes to a rest for a very very short time when changing directions 180 degrees. So you are correct to say the ball does stop and come to a rest, but it is for a very short time (hundredths of a second maybe). Not enough to call traveling, palming, etc.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

fundamental of physics. Everything comes to a rest for a very very short time when changing directions 180 degrees. So you are correct to say the ball does stop and come to a rest, but it is for a very short time (hundredths of a second maybe). Not enough to call traveling, palming, etc.

There's a difference between coming to a momentary inertial rest and actually coming to rest "in the hand." This wording implies the hand must be somehow suspending the ball in the air; either by palming (holding) it or sitting underneath it.

[bas2456]

At the 1:31 mark of the video, in my opinion, the player causes the ball to come to rest in his hand, which as we all know ends the dribble. He then takes several steps, then dribbles again. That's where I'm getting the traveling call instead of a carry or double dribble.

That's just my judgement, my opinion.

[Adam]

Carry/palming is, essentially, either a travel or a double dribble.

Does his hand get under the ball? Does he grasp it from above ("palming" it)? I didn't see either of those, so I'm not sure how you're seeing it. You're right, though, it's judgment.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

At the 1:31 mark of the video, in my opinion, the player causes the ball to come to rest in his hand, which as we all know ends the dribble. He then takes several steps, then dribbles again. That's where I'm getting the traveling call instead of a carry or double dribble.

That's just my judgement, my opinion.

Yes it is. But it helps when you can convince more than yourself that you made the right call. And I am all for calling palming/carrying, I make more of these calls than most. But I do not call them with a hand on top or not on the side of the ball at least. I did not see what you are seeing.

Peace