Palming or Carrying the ball??

[Paul LeBoutillier]

We were having a discussion meeting this past week with coaches and officials for a private school league that I do games for from time to time, and the subject of palming or carrying the ball came up. I was making the point that the ball handler's palm must be facing up and the ball must momentarily come to rest in the palm for the call to be made and a couple of the officials mentioned that a palming/carrying call could be made if the dribbler's palm was sideways. Have any of you seen this in the rulebook???

[toddwar]

Paul, "palming" the ball, i.e. illegal dribbling, has become endemic to our game - and it's largely our fault, because we didn't clamp down on it when it first started happening. The international (FIBA) rule states only that the dribble ends..."when the player...permits the ball to come to rest in one or both hands" (Art. 34.1.1). That's not much guidance. Oddly enough, in the FIBA rulebook there is a signal for "carrying the ball" - but no rule specifically forbidding it except as I've mentioned above. The NBA tried to crack down on the more egregious examples a couple of years ago (Allan Iverson), but looks like they gave up, too.

I've had more cases in the last 2 years than in the prevous 27 where I check the game ball and find that it's not pumped up enough - 'cause that's the way the pg likes it ("too bad", I tell him - get some air in it or get me another ball).

I generally call "palming" in the following situation (and don't let me mislead you, - I call it about twice a year): A1 has the ball and momentarily stops his dribble with his palm up. B1 comes at him to guard him closely and as he's doing so, A1 puts the ball back down on the floor and blows past him. The issue (as in many cases) is that there is a clear advantage here for A1.

The other night I was doing an Israel National League game between Maccabi Tel Aviv and Kiryat Motzkin/Ata (an area north of Haifa). The point guard from Motzkin was moving laterally and spinning to escape some defensive pressure and in fact carrying the ball in order to do so (which I saw but didn't call). Arriel MacDonald, the Tel Aviv point guard from U of Minn, said "Hey Todd, he's palming". All I could do was laugh a little and say, "Arriel, have you ever watched YOU dribble the ball?" I guess we're all to blame.

Todd Warnick
Jerusalem, Israel

[Mark Dexter]

The key with palming/carrying is that it is really a double dribble. As Todd said, if the ball comes to rest in the dribbler's hand, you can have a carrying violation even if the dribbler's palm is pointing at the floor.

That being said, this violation is a pain in the you-know-where to call. I've pretty much given up on the stoppage of ball movement (because it's a rec league), and only call when the palm is straight up under the ball. I still get odd looks and shouts every time I call a carry!

[mick]

Originally posted by Paul LeBoutillier
We were having a discussion meeting this past week with coaches and officials for a private school league that I do games for from time to time, and the subject of palming or carrying the ball came up. I was making the point that the ball handler's palm must be facing up and the ball must momentarily come to rest in the palm for the call to be made and a couple of the officials mentioned that a palming/carrying call could be made if the dribbler's palm was sideways. Have any of you seen this in the rulebook???

Paul,
The hand can be anywhere on the ball (bottom, side, top, front, back) for a palming/carrying violation to be called.
I think that was a P.O.E. couple years ago. (...just gave Also, last two years books to my daughter who is starting to coach jr.High).
NCAA put out a video tape (also a few years ago) with regard to illegal dribbling and if your association, or league can get hold of that, it should open up some new ideas for you.
I think the lack of description in the "books" underscores the problem of giving everyone a clear picture of "What is that?"
mick

[DrakeM]

Steve Javie has a good guideline as to when palming should be called. If a player "hops" or "skips" when trying to beat a defender, he has usually carried the ball.
I use this philosophy when judging this play, and have found it to be accurate 99% of the time.

[Bart Tyson]

DrakM, interesting i'll have to check that out.

[Jim Armstrong]

The NFHS rules review video, shows that this violation occurs most often, when a dribbler attempts a "hesitation" move, which often allows the ball to come to rest momentarily on his/her hand, before attempting to blow past the defender.