debate between me and another

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Those of us who have been around for several years have spent many hours reading through that book. Some of us have even authored a few of the play situations. So, yes, we are aware of everything which is in it and have read the whole thing.

Well, I just finished the last book I was reading, so I'll put the case book on my list then. Thanks

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

Well, I just finished the last book I was reading, so I'll put the case book on my list then. Thanks

Good idea, if you wish to progress past JV ball.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Good idea, if you wish to progress past JV ball.

Thanks.

I like your signature btw. That was apparently the case in another game I had this past weekend, where I, as a T, was calling a charge, and a second or two later I hear my partner's whistle go off and he's calling block. I was stunned enough that he did beat me to the table, and I was right in front of the table pretty much haha.

Official call: Block. the right call: charge.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by representing

There was no arguing between me and the other forum members, I got it clear now.

Does anyone actually read all of the case book though? Some of these situations are almost never to happen.

Yes. And the Rule Book. How else are you going to learn? As a new ref (2nd yr.& going through the process of passing wriiten&floor exams to make my board)...I know that the more I read it (and I'll never know it cold) the more I improve in my understanding of the basic tenets of the game. A good example of this is in BITS' reply about proper use of the A/P arrow. Casebook helps you grasp/understand the A/P arrow....not only when/how to use it, but most importantly when NOT to use it. One of the concepts the vets in charge of the 2nd yr. non-certified refs on our board have been hammering into our heads in classes this year is proper use/application and understanding of POI and A/P arrow.
Also, as Nevada showed in his reply...the answer to the "knotty problem" in your OP was right in the casebook....no debate as to what was the proper thing to do in the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

Thanks.

I like your signature btw. That was apparently the case in another game I had this past weekend, where I, as a T, was calling a charge, and a second or two later I hear my partner's whistle go off and he's calling block. I was stunned enough that he did beat me to the table, and I was right in front of the table pretty much haha.

Official call: Block. the right call: charge.

NFHS rules call: double foul, resume at the POI.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If I were king of basketball, I think I'd take the arrow away until these folks learned how to properly solve the 99% of situations that resume using POI or some means other than the arrow. Then maybe, and only maybe, I'd give it back.

And would you also take BillyMac's suggestion of a coin flip instead of a jump ball too?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by representing

Sorry. B shot the ball and made it. A had the ball to pass it in. If I remember correctly, B was pressing A so A could not get the ball into play right away. B's Head Coach calls a time out while A still had the ball out of bounds for the throw-in. I acknowledged it, but had a slight delay with my whistle. When I finally blew the whistle to grant B a time out, the ball was on it's way in-bounds.

Does that make better sense?

My confusion is whether you still believe you were right in this situation.

You can't grant B's timeout request if it came after A has the ball at their disposal for the throw-in. Whether the throw-in has ended or not is of no consequence. B shouldn't have been granted a timeout in this scenario, either.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by representing

There was no arguing between me and the other forum members, I got it clear now.

Does anyone actually read all of the case book though? Some of these situations are almost never to happen.

I'll also add, in addition to the points already made, that reading those plays there are 'almost never to happen' is a tremendous way to truly understand the rules.

If you understand why one of those extremely rare cases is ruled the way it is, then you should have no problem when determining the correct ruling in a related but less rare scenario.

The case book is not written to give specific examples of every possible play, but rather to clarify the ruling on situations that can be applied to many other situations you will encounter.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by representing

...Some of these situations are almost never to happen.

The fact that they are in the case book means that they actually did happen somewhere.

The case book is not there to help you with the things that happen in every ball game every night. You're expected to know that before you get on the floor.

[ref3808]

I was sitting in the living room last week reading the case book. My son entered the room and saw me reading the book and said "Dad, why are reading that book when you already passed the test". I showed him the case book and told him there was knowing the rules, and knowing how to practically apply the rules. I spend about two hours a week with the cases and learn something each time.

My only issue with the case book is the format where the editors use the situation (a) (b) (C) (d) scenarios. I understand why it's done that way ... doesn't make it any easier to read though.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by representing

There was no arguing between me and the other forum members, I got it clear now.

Does anyone actually read all of the case book though? Some of these situations are almost never to happen.

Almost being the key word. And plays don't have to happen exactly as the case plays cited for the principles to be applied.

But good officials most definitely read the case book, especially after a situation like you had. ANYTIME I have a questionable ruling or scenario in a game I go to the case & rule books as soon as possible after the game (or even during hafltime).

Whenever I go to lunch by myself I read either the case book, rule book, or manual while dining.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Almost being the key word. And plays don't have to happened exactly as the case plays cited for the principles to be applied.

But good officials most definitely read the case book, especially after a situation like you had. ANYTIME I have a questionable ruling or scenario in a game I go to the case & rule books as soon as possible after the game (or even during hafltime).

Whenever I go to lunch by myself I read either the case book, rule book, or manual while driving.

Fixed it for you, as I like to do cruising down the tri state.

[Thumper68]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Fixed it for you, as I like to do cruising and posting on The Offical Forum on my cell phone down the tri state.

And I added some for you!

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

NFHS rules call: double foul, resume at the POI.

Sorry for not being clear. This was a block/charge play, couldn't have been double foul.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by representing

Sorry for not being clear. This was a block/charge play, couldn't have been double foul.

I think you need to read 4.19.8 Situation C.