Differences between Scoreboard & scorebooks

[chseagle]

Had this happen tonight during the Girls' JV Game.

Over halfway through the 1st Quarter, the visitor scorebook is saying the home team should only be showing 2, the home book is showing 4 for home score, & the scoreboard was showing 5 for home score.

Both scorebooks were being ran by students.

During the 1st dead ball after realizing error(s), buzzed & asked the R to come to table. I discussed to the R that there is a score difference between the scorebooks & the scoreboard. I explained what I saw as to the home score, compared to what both books had recorded. Both books were asked to record what I had stated about about the made free throw just done by home team and to confer with each other the running score. After everything was said & done, both books & scoreboard matched for score shown.

How should this situation of been handled?

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Had this happen tonight during the Girls' JV Game.

Over halfway through the 1st Quarter, the visitor scorebook is saying the home team should only be showing 2, the home book is showing 4 for home score, & the scoreboard was showing 5 for home score.

Both scorebooks were being ran by students.

During the 1st dead ball after realizing error(s), buzzed & asked the R to come to table. I discussed to the R that there is a score difference between the scorebooks & the scoreboard. I explained what I saw as to the home score, compared to what both books had recorded. Both books were asked to record what I had stated about about the made free throw just done by home team and to confer with each other the running score. After everything was said & done, both books & scoreboard matched for score shown.

How should this situation of been handled?

I'm a little confused here, are you the other official or are you the scoreboard operator?

Regardless, if the table and the official(s) can come to a conclusion about what happened, and it's just in one (or both) books wrong, then correct the books, get it right on the board, and continue. If we can't reconcile the differences, then the home scorebook is the official book, and we will take that score. The other book should be amended to reflect the home book, and the home book's score should be put up on the board.

After both, I would talk to both head coaches and let them know what's going on.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

I'm a little confused here, are you the other official or are you the scoreboard operator?

Regardless, if the table and the official(s) can come to a conclusion about what happened, and it's just in one (or both) books wrong, then correct the books, get it right on the board, and continue. If we can't reconcile the differences, then the home scorebook is the official book, and we will take that score. The other book should be amended to reflect the home book, and the home book's score should be put up on the board.

After both, I would talk to both head coaches and let them know what's going on.

I was doing Scoreboard, the Floor Officials I had worked with before. The visitors' scorebook was insisting that the score was wrong on the board as they only had home score at 2 (2 2-pt. shot were made & 1 free throw). Somehow the home book never saw the free throw made, so they had 4 in the book. The scoreboard was showing the correct score. The R heard my side of how I saw the scoring compared to the home book (I had definite knowledge of the score, as I was reporting it on the scoreboard as the score happened), confered with the other 2 floor officials & the conclusion was that the score on the board was the correct score. Both the home book & visitor book then had to confer & get on the same page so they matched the scoreboard.

Before the game started both I & the shot clock operator went over what was expected of the home book with it being the official book. Throughout the game, the shot clock operator was continually coaching the home book on what needed to be done throughout the game. Several times, throughout the game, both books were asking who scored the last basket.

Like I mentioned in the original post, both people doing scorebook were students, neither one was really paying attention to the game, the home bookkeeper was texting on her phone. The visiting bookkeeper was talking with her friend throughout the game. Both the shot clock operator & I were communicating information to the books yet they were not reporting it in the books, until after the fact.

[grunewar]

Good thing here is you're only talking four or five total points which the referees should easily remember.

As has been said, corrections made if there is definite knowledge and move out. If the others can't back your claim - home book stands - like it or not.

Man, those kids at the table can be killers........We had a great crew at the table last night. Wish I could take them to all my games!

Like butter baby!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chseagle

as they only had home score at 2 (2 2-pt. shot were made & 1 free throw).

I'm a little confused as to how that adds up to 2, but as soon as the discrepancy was noted, try to get it fixed.

Happens with some regularity at lower level games.

Maybe game management should deal with the texting scorekeeper.

[Ignats75]

In 90% of my Jv games, the scoreboard and book are kept by adults. Its the recommended way by the OHSAA. Only in lower levels do I see the texting girl. Two years ago, I did remove a student and had game management get another scoreboard operator. The AD ended up doing it himself. Taught him a lesson.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Good thing here is you're only talking four or five total points which the referees should easily remember.

...

I'm thinking the same thing. Only 5 or 4 or 2 points then I would expect that we as a crew would remember the events.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Good thing here is you're only talking four or five total points which the referees should easily remember.

...

I'm thinking the same thing. Only 5 or 4 or 2 points then I would expect that we as a crew would remember the events.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm a little confused as to how that adds up to 2, but as soon as the discrepancy was noted, try to get it fixed.

Happens with some regularity at lower level games.

Maybe game management should deal with the texting scorekeeper.

Sorry, Bob. What I am meaning is that I, scoreboard operator, saw 2 2 pt. baskets & 1 free throw made (5). The visitor scorebook had only one 2 pt. basket (2), while the home book had just the 2 2 pt. baskets (4). Neither book had recorded the free throw being made.

I watched a bit more closely how the Varsity Table is ran & am gonna start using that strategy (both books together side-by-side, with scoreboard to the left, looking at table from floor, & the shot clock operator).

Concerning the texting scorekeeper, I'll be working crowd control at a Wrestling Invite at my alma mater before the Boys' Games to be played on Saturday. I'll see about talking with the AD that I have someone (an adult) that wants to learn & do scorebook for C-Squad & JV Games. I'll also mention to him, quoting previous situations, that it would be better if he let the coaches know that for the C-Squad & JV Games that an adult do the scorebook(s). We don't need to worry about the Varsity Games scorebook as they're done by adults.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm thinking the same thing. Only 5 or 4 or 2 points then I would expect that we as a crew would remember the events.

I had worked with 2 of the floor officials before, when I buzzed concerning the score I explained what I saw & input up on the scoreboard. The R confirmed what I had said. The R then told both scorebooks what I told him & said to report what I had said concerning the score in order to be corresponding/correct with the scoreboard.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

In 90% of my Jv games, the scoreboard and book are kept by adults. Its the recommended way by the OHSAA. Only in lower levels do I see the texting girl. Two years ago, I did remove a student and had game management get another scoreboard operator. The AD ended up doing it himself. Taught him a lesson.

It's always been during C-Squad & JV Games, students doing the scorebook, as long as I've been doing scoreboard/timer & shot clock. When I was Boys' Basketball Manager, as a student, I was the one doing scorebook for both JV & C-Squad. With the addition now of the Boys' games having a 35-second shot clock, that will change things a bit due to the extra table personnel.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm a little confused as to how that adds up to 2, but as soon as the discrepancy was noted, try to get it fixed.

Happens with some regularity at lower level games.

Maybe game management should deal with the texting scorekeeper.

The visitor scorebook only had 2 pts. in their book. However in the game 2 2 pt. shots & 1 free throw was made by the home team. I had on the scoreboard that the home team had 5 pts. The home book showed that only 2 2 pt. shots were made, showing only 4 pts.

I am working a wrestling invite before Boys' games on Saturday, I'll ask the AD if I can speak to him off to the side, & exxplain what happened as well as ask/request that adults do the scorebooks during C-Squad & JV games. I do know a person that would like to learn how to do scorebook, I'll ask the AD if she can be used on Saturday. All the Varsity games, an adult does the scorebook.

I'm also going to start using the table setup I saw during last night's Varsity Contest (the scorebooks sitting side-by-side, with the scoreboard next to them, with the shot clock on the other side of scoreboard).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

If we can't reconcile the differences, then the home scorebook is the official book, and we will take that score. The other book should be amended to reflect the home book, and the home book's score should be put up on the board.

Just a little bit more to add:

NFHS 2-11-11: ... notifying thereferee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the official scorebook, unless he/she has knowledge which permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score and the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

If we can't reconcile the differences, then the home scorebook is the official book, and we will take that score. The other book should be amended to reflect the home book, and the home book's score should be put up on the board.

After both, I would talk to both head coaches and let them know what's going on.

Ironically, blame both scorebooks for the discrepancy, as neither book was doing their job correctly. Considering neither book had reported in it the made free throw. When I was seeing a score occur, I automatically put the points on the board, according to how many points were scored, thinking that the scorebooks were doing the same. I had explained that to the R that when I saw the score, I reported it properly on the scorebaord, with the understanding that the books were doing the same thing.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Just a little bit more to add:

NFHS 2-11-11: ... notifying thereferee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the official scorebook, unless he/she has knowledge which permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score and the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score.

In this situation, I had "definitive knowledge" of what the score should be, & the R confered with the other floor officials about what I said, all 3 came to the conclusion that I had the facts straight as they saw it. Both coaches were kinda fuming that the scorebooks were not doing their jobs properly, after they were notified of what was happening. Unfortunately, at that time there was no one else available to do scorebook to replace those that made the error.