Scorebook/Scoreboard Error at End of Game

[imagomer]

Maybe this will be interesting. I know the officials in my case handled this correctly, but it brought to my mind a related question.

I lost by 1 point last night, in my own gym (so I've no one to blame by my own group), with a decently experienced scorekeeper on my book. In a close 4th quarter, we were down a few and pressing, and my #11 scored, stole, and scored again within maybe 5 seconds. My scorekeeper scored the 4 pts correctly in the book - running score and player stats, but the scoreboard only posted the first basket.

AFTER time had expired and officials had "left the confines," she was talleying final scores and totals, and she discovered the error. (I know, I know, she SHOULD have been double and triple checking all along, but she didn't) The visitor's book agreed with hers. When the officials returned for the boys' game, she brought her error to their attention, and, of course, they stated there was nothing they could do by that time. (She had even asked that the game be "awarded" to us, after time had expired, based on the scorebook)

My Question: What if she had discovered the error, and the V book had agreed, AS SOON AS time expired (meaning we and the Visitors had played and coached and strategerized under the assumption of a certain score)? What about possibly other discovery times?

I know many here are very experienced and you would not have been even tempted to erroneously grant me the victory, or grant a do-over, but I posted this to show the newer officials just one more sitch they may encounter.

Hope this is interesting - I find these discussions very valuable in improving my coaching and my working relationships with officials.

[FrankHtown]

A score book error can be corrected any time until the officials leave the visual confines of the court.

If someone has their case book handy, there is just such a case. The score was tied, and before the jump to start the overtime, the scorer realized that team A had two more points. As long as the ball hadn't become live to start the overtime, the game ends with team A winning, and no overtime is played.

Of course, when that happens, the officials SPRINT off the court.

2-2-4 ...the jurisdiction of the officials' is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Yes, the score can be corrected up until we have walked out of the gym door. Scores can even be corrected in OT but the OT will played out since we started.

[jdw3018]

Well, the scorebook is the official record of the game. If the official scorebook has you as the winner, then you have won the game regardless of what was on the scoreboard.

At least, that's the way I understand the rule.

[Nevadaref]

We discussed this a couple of months ago on this forum, but if I recall the situation was that the score of the running total in the official book, which is the official score not what's on the board, was tied.

The problem here is what was the final score that the referee approved when the officials left the visual confines of the gym? Is it what is recorded in the book, which they can't see or is it what they can see on the board and what everyone in the gym thinks is the score?
In such a case, I would have to argue that the approved final score is what was on the board. Perhaps the NFHS will give us an official ruling someday.
BTW I have a strong suspicion that your scorer could learn something from this too. I have to believe that he/she was not keeping the running total across the top of the book, but only marking down the points under each player and then totalling them up at the end of each quarter. Had a running score been kept this mistake would have been noticed at some point. Also a good reminder that the RUNNING SCORE is the official score!

This is a very good example of why many top officials find a moment in the final few seconds/minutes of the 4th quarter to have a quick word with the scorer and confirm that the score in the book matches what is on the board.
Then only a thumbs up at the final horn or a look and a nod is all that is needed to the scorer before leaving the floor.

Obviously had this been brought to the attention of the referee prior to all of the officials leaving, then it could have been corrected and you would have won the game.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

A score book error can be corrected any time until the officials leave the visual confines of the court.

If someone has their case book handy, there is just such a case. The score was tied, and before the jump to start the overtime, the scorer realized that team A had two more points. As long as the ball hadn't become live to start the overtime, the game ends with team A winning, and no overtime is played.

Of course, when that happens, the officials SPRINT off the court.

I read the OP as the scoreboard was incorrect, and the official book was correct...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

A score book error can be corrected any time until the officials leave the visual confines of the court.

If someone has their case book handy, there is just such a case. The score was tied, and before the jump to start the overtime, the scorer realized that team A had two more points. As long as the ball hadn't become live to start the overtime, the game ends with team A winning, and no overtime is played.

Of course, when that happens, the officials SPRINT off the court.

That's not the one in the case book. That's from last year's interps on the website.

[Adam]

Nevada asks the pertinent question. My understanding from the rule is that the book is what gets approved. You might want to get clarification from your state, coach.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I read the OP as the scoreboard was incorrect, and the official book was correct...

It also depends which part of the scorebook was correct and where the points were recorded. See my above post about the running score versus the individual player talleys.

I'm sure that you know that.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It also depends which part of the scorebook was correct and where the points were recorded. See my above post about the running score versus the individual player talleys.

I'm sure that you know that.

Yeah, great point, and also a great point in your post about "what is the official actually approving?" It would be great to get a clarification or case play added regarding this type of situation.

We had a scoring error in our game last night that wasn't caught in time. My partner called a PC foul on a layup in the third quarter, and apparently the scorers counted the basket. The other team ended up losing by 1. After the game (and after we'd left the confines and returned) the coach asked us about it. He knew the mistake had been made, said he tried to make the point with the scorer, but never asked one of us about it. Strange situation, and I was left wondering if I should have been aware enough at the time to catch it. It was also the one call all night I was frustrated with my partner on because for the second night in a row my partner came to get a call in my area - and IMO was wrong again.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Yeah, great point, and also a great point in your post about "what is the official actually approving?" It would be great to get a clarification or case play added regarding this type of situation.

We had a scoring error in our game last night that wasn't caught in time. My partner called a PC foul on a layup in the third quarter, and apparently the scorers counted the basket. The other team ended up losing by 1. After the game (and after we'd left the confines and returned) the coach asked us about it. He knew the mistake had been made, said he tried to make the point with the scorer, but never asked one of us about it. Strange situation, and I was left wondering if I should have been aware enough at the time to catch it. It was also the one call all night I was frustrated with my partner on because for the second night in a row my partner came to get a call in my area - and IMO was wrong again.

That's an excellent learning example. I track the score and the team fouls the entire game. After every basket goes in I find a time in the next couple of seconds to check that the points went up on the board properly. If we get to the next dead ball and they haven't I stop the game and get it fixed.

In your case there was a foul, the game was now stopped, and you have time to check the board, you should be glancing at it for the clock info anyway at every whistle. This really is something that I would expect a varsity official to catch, but as you said, you may have been distracted due to your partner calling out of his area. That is something that I'm sure all of us can take a lesson from and strive to improve upon. How does it affect us when our partner does such and such on the floor. The best officials will keep a poker face and continue to do their duties. It just takes extra mental focus. Thanks for sharing that situation. I'm going to think about it when I work again this weekend.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This really is something that I would expect a varsity official to catch, but as you said, you may have been distracted due to your partner calling out of his area. That is something that I'm sure all of us can take a lesson from and strive to improve upon. How does it affect us when our partner does such and such on the floor. The best officials will keep a poker face and continue to do their duties. It just takes extra mental focus. Thanks for sharing that situation. I'm going to think about it when I work again this weekend.

Absolutely - one thing I know is that in striving to do the best I can and "prove" myself as an official new to this area, I'm allowing some distractions I shouldn't.

Game awareness, as I said, is an area I'm working hard on this year and it failed me there. Unfortunately, both of us have 5 or more years under our belts, have called quite a bit of varsity, and neither of us caught this one. Quite frustrating, but as you said a great learning opportunity and something I'll be working on next time out (tomorrow and Friday).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Absolutely - one thing I know is that in striving to do the best I can and "prove" myself as an official new to this area, I'm allowing some distractions I shouldn't.

I just surmised that and made a comment about it in the other thread that you started this morning. Go check it out.

We should probably bounce this discussion back over to that thread instead of continuing to highjack this one. I feel that we are getting away from the OP's point.

[imagomer]

Clarifying: Scorebook's running score and player stats were correct, reflecting the scoring of 4 pts instead of 2.

. . . and yeah, scorekeeper SWEARS (or affirms) never to make this mistake again. Incidentally, your advice to absolutely get the running score correct before marking the player stats is exactly what the officials last night advised her.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by imagomer

Clarifying: Scorebook's running score and player stats were correct, reflecting the scoring of 4 pts instead of 2.

. . . and yeah, scorekeeper SWEARS (or affirms) never to make this mistake again. Incidentally, your advice to absolutely get the running score correct before marking the player stats is exactly what the officials last night advised her.

So how does she go the whole 4th quarter or however long it was marking up two more points on the line than are shown up on the board and never have it click with her when she looks up? Did she never look at the scoreboard or did she not read the number that she was putting the mark through in the book?

I'm just baffled here that it would go undetected for so long?

PS Where are your fans? You know the "helpful" ones who always scream "The scores wrong! We didn't get our points." They needed to make some noise for you.