New Two Person rotation?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by constable

I'm glad IAABO states and provinces didn't adapt the new mechanic. I found for the few games I used it I wasn't paying as much attention to the players as I was the benches.

Why were you doing that? I don't think standing in a different spot causes one to not pay attention to the players.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by constable

I'm glad IAABO states and provinces didn't adapt the new mechanic. I found for the few games I used it I wasn't paying as much attention to the players as I was the benches.

Originally Posted by LDUB

Why were you doing that? I don't think standing in a different spot causes one to not pay attention to the players.

As highlighted, constable was paying attention to the players. Just not as much attention as was being paid to the bench.

It makes perfect sense to me. I am guessing the bench is wanting more attention than the players and will usually accomplish just that. As I've said before, I am not a fan of this change.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

As highlighted, constable was paying attention to the players. Just not as much attention as was being paid to the bench.

It makes perfect sense to me. I am guessing the bench is wanting more attention than the players and will usually accomplish just that. As I've said before, I am not a fan of this change.

I don't understand why this is any different than being in the trail position tableside during a live ball. How do you manage to pay attention to the players in that situation? Why is it any different during a free throw?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I don't understand why this is any different than being in the trail position tableside during a live ball. How do you manage to pay attention to the players in that situation? Why is it any different during a free throw?

They are two very different situations. We tell coaches to hold their questions until a dead ball, and during/following reporting a foul is prime time for coaches to want to engage us. The argument is that placing us near the bench tends to prolong that engagement, thus providing a distraction you don't normally have.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

They are two very different situations. We tell coaches to hold their questions until a dead ball, and during/following reporting a foul is prime time for coaches to want to engage us. The argument is that placing us near the bench tends to prolong that engagement, thus providing a distraction you don't normally have.

I disagree - if anything coaches are more active and vocal during a live ball. There are distractions all the time. I just don't see standing tableside during a free throw as an issue at all, other than being able to see the subs. You just need to be able to take care of business, which is what is expected of us all the time. We can simply tell a coach to hold their questions till a dead ball once the free throw begins - then just focus on the free throw. What's the difference? It's not a big deal. That's my point.

[Scratch85]

Most of us agree it's not a big deal. Experienced officials will make the transition with little or no effort or affect. Inexperienced officials won't recognize the difference.

My point is, it wasn't necessary to make the change and IMO will not do anything to improve communication or anything else. The only affect I anticipate is the small hinderances (switch/no switch, subs) that it will likely create.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I disagree - if anything coaches are more active and vocal during a live ball. There are distractions all the time. I just don't see standing tableside during a free throw as an issue at all, other than being able to see the subs. You just need to be able to take care of business, which is what is expected of us all the time. We can simply tell a coach to hold their questions till a dead ball once the free throw begins - then just focus on the free throw. What's the difference? It's not a big deal. That's my point.

Then I disagree that this is the best thing to do. At least in my area we do not use 2 Person for most varsity games (very rare when this happens) and now you want basically younger and inexperienced officials that have a hard enough time talking to coaches, putting them in a place where a coach expects some conversation. And unlike the trail official in a 3 person, the trail in a 2 person has stuff to do. You cannot have them looking behind themselves and talking to anyone when the ball is live. And during a live ball there is not much dialog either. Now we are going to have an expectation of dialog that is going to delay the game more or cause further conflict when an official decides to rightfully so not talk to a coach while they are officiating live action. At least during other parts of the game, coaches might understand this. Now the calling official is in front of a coach, back to the table, cannot see substitutions as well. The lead official also is possibly screened by the table as well. The NF makes it clear that an official is not to turn around during a live ball to acknowledge a timeout out, now we have to turn away from action to talk to a coach? It is not that it is a big deal; it is just silly to put the officials in a bad situation. This is not going to make things better for anyone.

Peace

[Smitty]

I don't know that there's an "expectation of dialogue" or not. I certainly would rather have the coach talking to me within earshot than yelling across the court if I were opposite the table. I am sure there are coaches who will try to take advantage of this position, certainly at the lower levels. But those are the same coaches who are going to be a pain the whole game anyway. You just have to take care of your business, just like during every other part of the game. I have been using this mechanic all summer and into the fall and have not had any problems with any coaches. The only issue has been seeing the subs waiting. I'm not trying to validate the new mechanic - I'm just saying it's not as big a deal as people are making it out to be, for the reasons they are using.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

They are two very different situations. We tell coaches to hold their questions until a dead ball, and during/following reporting a foul is prime time for coaches to want to engage us. The argument is that placing us near the bench tends to prolong that engagement, thus providing a distraction you don't normally have.

It doesn't prolong anything. The lead is going to put the ball in play at the same time no matter which side of the court the T is on. If the coach is going to say something going opposite and being 20 feet further away isn't going to stop him.

[refnrev]

I've only had one game with it but I didn't like the change for the following reasons:
1. Harder to see subs
2. Talking or listening (or trying to ignore) a coach when I should be focused elsewhere on FT administration issues.
3. I had to T up a coach for being jackass about something I would have never heard had I been across the way.
4. Just felt awkward being that close to the bench and trying to watch for violations, count, etc.
JMO

[Jim Henry]

Originally Posted by refnrev

I've only had one game with it but I didn't like the change for the following reasons:
1. Harder to see subs
2. Talking or listening (or trying to ignore) a coach when I should be focused elsewhere on FT administration issues.
3. I had to T up a coach for being jackass about something I would have never heard had I been across the way.
4. Just felt awkward being that close to the bench and trying to watch for violations, count, etc.
JMO

I have my first game on Monday but I'm thinking the same thing. With the old rule I'm facing the table and can look for subs sitting in front of table or last second subs running up to the table, and see other activity at or near table. (ever have a scorer not use the horn quick enough for subs?) With new rule my back is to the table and I could have comments coming from who knows where...coach, player, parent...and I can't ID the joker. This might even make it more inviting for "unfavorable" comments from the peanut gallery. In most cases communication is fine and most civil discussions happen during dead balls.
I don't get it but I'll adjust. Would like to get opinions on this in February.