How Can I Get My Area To Give The Three Person Rotation A Honest Try?

[Love2ref4Ever]

I live in the "greatest" city in the world, and when it comes to officiating sometimes I feel like I live in the "worst" city in the world. Most states across the country have began to use the 3 person rotation on there high school games, and here in New York City it's like pulling teeth to get them to give it a honest try. They claim it's to exspensive to add a third official to each games, yet they won't even try to experiment and see how it goes. We currently make alittle over $86.00 per varsity game and I am one of those officials who would except a pay cut just to have the opportunity to officiate 3 person more often.Now, how can I get my area to give the 3 person rotation a honest try?

[Ref42]

Here in Maryland, we have the exact same problem, however at least your paid a little (No Alot Better), then we are here for a Varsity game. We currently make 52, 55, and 58 for Varsity games depending on the county and/or if it is a private school. Our "Catholic" league, which is supposed to be the "best ball" in the area and has more than enough money to add the extra official, has never been 3-man officiated and at this time, I don't see it coming very soon. Part of the problem for my association is we don't have enough guys who A) Go to camp each summer to learn 3-man, B) Will take the time, say in September & October when applicant classes are being taught to attend 3-Man classes. Since we already have the gym and classrooms for the applicant class it really is a no brainer why it can't be taught for a two month period twice a week, and C) The older veterans rebel against any form of a paycut for this type of officiating as many are only out there to get paid. They don't understand for many of them, it will extend their careers and they will make even more money in the long run.

To top it off we have only had 3-man officiating at our state championship level for the past 2 years and last year the Maryland State Playoffs put 3-man officiating at the regional semi's and finals, but are taking it back out this year and are only going to keep it at the state semi's and finals. So in my state we are actually going backwards.

I don't know what to say, but I can talk til I'm blue in the face, but your right you always here the price issue as a reason not to do it. There has to be some sort of compromise out there so that this game can be officiated properly with 3 officials because the game has risen to that level and it is needed.

[Rick Vietti]

The association needs to push it but more importantly the State association for high school sports needs to push it. It sounds like from what you get paid, you could split it 3 ways and still do pretty good compared to others in the country.

Some coaches at the high school level oppose going to 3-man also because they feel that they get 2 good officials and one lesser official. They would rather have 2 strong officials. What they do not see is that if the 3rd official is at least looking off ball it cleans up the game tremendously.

In Nevada we have been doing 3-man for several years for the large schools girls and boys. The benefit is that comes during playoff time, we have a good pool of officials well trained and game tested in 3 man mechanics. If your state uses 3-man in playoffs etc.. but not during the year, it is a great benefit to have more officials ready to go and not just trying to adjust to the mechanics.

Good luck and keep pushing for 3-man.

[rockyroad]

We have faced the same arguments here in my little corner of the Pacific Northwest...what seems to be pushing us over the top of the hill now is a concentrated (but subtle) effort by our assignor and Board members to talk informally with AD's and coaches whenever possible about trying it out...our largest schools - 4A - will use three-person for all JV and V games this coming season - and THEY feel like it was all THEIR idea to try this out...we, of course, know better...

[JRutledge]

but this is how they did it. For almost all the Class A schools, they require you to do both games (JV and Varsity). I guess I should clairfy, if the school is in conferences that do not have assignors. If they have assignors, the assignors make sure that two sets of officials do the games separately. And the assignors know that they do not want they varsity officials getting tired over a JV game. And to do that, in essence you take a pay cut if you do both games. Before you might have made $45 to 50 dollars for one varsity game. If you do both games, you might get $60. So you probably only made 10 or $15 total for one extra game. Alot of guys do not like that.

I do one conference that pays $60 for a 3 Person varsity crew (each man/women). But I think they feel they have to, mainly because the conference is spread out all over Northern Illinois. They might not get officials to travel if they do not pay them like that. At least that is what I think.

I do know this, the Chicago Public League is not about to go 3 Person anytime soon from reports I have heard. And this conference has some of the best teams and players in this state. They need 3 Officials on the floor as much as anyone. And there claim is much of what you guys have stated, money.

Peace

[Brian Watson]

I think it all boils down to who wants it.

I think we all know that we have zero pull in most places. Until the coaches or someone in the state wants to see it, you won't.

I know we have been on this stump before, but most states have game limits, which really limits the number of home games you have. When you look at the numbers, it is not really that much more to add a guy (for example, we have a 20 game max. In a perfect world you would have 10 home vsrsity games. What is an extra 500 or 600 dollars to give your kids thebest possible game? If it really is a budget buster, raise the ticket prices 50 cents. Plus, compared to new ball, unis, warmups, etc. we are a small expense.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
What is an extra 500 or 600 dollars to give your kids thebest possible game?

I think this is the biggest problem - coaches (and AD's) don't necessarily see a third official as making the game any better.

Even though studies have proven this wrong, many coaches think that a third official will increase the total number of fouls, thereby requiring the use of a (hopefully strong) bench. While there may not be more fouls, there will be more off-ball calls, which means that the coach needs to stop his players from using the little holds and push-offs that are usually not called with a 2 official crew.

[Brian Watson]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I think this is the biggest problem - coaches (and AD's) don't necessarily see a third official as making the game any better.

Until little Suzy 20 points a game gets crushed by an off-ball screen that a 2 man crew didn't see......

[BktBallRef]

$86 is a pretty good game fee. I understand that the cost of living in NYC is high, so it's not really apples to oranges. I think the officials in your area are probably going to have to agree to take a lower fee before you'll see 3 man. Get the schools to go up $8 and you could pay each official $60 a game. That's still well above the national average for 3 man. We get $50 for one game in NC, but we normally work a girls/boys varsity doubleheader for $70. That's a flat fee that includes travel. All Varsity games in the state pay this rate, no matter whether it's 1A or 4A. I can understand the reluctance to go down on the fee but 3 man can extend an official's carerr 5 - 10 years, over the course of a career.

BTW, if a crew can't call a JV/Varsity doubleheader because they get to tired, they're not in very good shape to begin with.

[PAULK1]

As was said before the state must takes some steps to do this. One way I have seen work is for the state to increase the fee for 2 man games. The way it works here is the fee for 3 man games is 35 per offical or 105 per game for 2 man it is 45 per offical or 90 per game. so they are only saving 15 dollars a game by using 2 officials. Once the
you get some of your schools to do 3 man your assignor or who ever deals with the schools needs to mention to the schools that don't want 3 man that your more experienced officials are the ones qualified to do 3 man and they most
likely will go to the schools who will use them. We did use the only one game per night per 2 man crew ploy for varsity on our last hold out school. They caved in when the travel cost for 2 crews wiped out their 15 dollar savings.

[devdog69]

Paul, sounds like your association has a little more power than some in other areas, which is good for you. When we first started using three-man, we took a paycut for the first couple of years. That included one league where we had to work a JV game and then two varsity games for $85. It was/is really hard to keep your concentration for the boys varsity game, which was when it was really needed. Now the fees are creeping back up as the leagues that will not go for 3-man are having to bid up somewhat to get quality officials, and hopefully, that will get our fees back up to a respectable level.

[JAdams]

almost all boys varsity contests use three whistles. Some of the small school conferences still use two's, but most are now three's. In addition, there are strong rumors running around the Dayton/Cincinnati area that some of the big school conferences are going to adopt three whistles for varsity girls games... gender equality and all that.

To the best of my knowledge, none of these conferences has actually cut the per-game fees of us officials when they've upgraded to three whistles. Maybe they've delayed an increase, but not actually cut the pay from the level of the year before.

On a side note, I attended the state final in Indiana last March for the smallest of their four divisions, and they still used two whistles... for a state championship game!

[Love2ref4Ever]

In order to try and get the coaches in the states of New York and New Jersey to look at the logic of using the three person rotation on all high school games in these two states, I submitted an article to the HighHoops website. This article I felt was in the best interest of the game, and to give the coaches in my area an insight as to how the three person rotation can help the officiating in high school basketball today.And also to let them know what officials need to do in order to learn the three person system,and how some supervisors of officials and assigners in my area don't even know what officials know the three person system. The title of this article
is called, "Wake Up Coaches!" and I would like my fellow officials to read this article and give me some feedback. One coach added a reply and told me to continue to push for the three person rotation in my area. To view this article please visit the HighHoops website at: http://www.Nycnjhoops.com and please let me know if there is anything else that I may need to do in order to get my message across to the powers that be.

[ChuckElias]

Love2, I read the article you posted. I totally agree that, especially in NYC, you ought to be using 3-man crews. No question about that. But I don't think you make a very good case for yourself in that article. You write:

How would you know what officials have continued to receive training, so that they may get the opportunity to work your big games? Aren't you as coaches tired of having officials on your games who keep walking up and down the court, and making those long distance calls? (AT&T)

Your point here seems to be, "if you're tired or getting lousy officials, then it's time to go 3-man". Well, that just doesn't wash. Lousy officials can learn to be lazy in a 3-man game just as easily as they can be lazy in a 2-man game. Additionally, going to 3-man means that on any given night, fifty percent more officials are required to cover the same number of games. And that means, that even lower quality officials might be needed to fill out the 3-man crews. You continue by saying that 3-man crews would be better because:

1. In order to learn the system an official has to continue to receive outside training (officiating camps)

Well, it's certainly true that an official who hasn't worked 3-man will need to learn it. But that's no guarantee that he/she will go to camp to learn it. Surely, you don't think that every official in NYC would go to camp next month if it were announced that 3-man crews were going to be implemented this winter. Most of them would read the manual and get to a pre-season clinic and that would be it.

2. They must also work tournaments and leagues that use the 3 person system (officiating camps)

The first part of this is obviously true, but so what? It's like saying that people who want to work 2-man games have to work tournaments or leagues that use the 2-man system. You still get crappy officials in those leagues. You can still expect to get them in the 3-man leagues too. (But even having said that, the part about attending camps is not true.)

3. And be observed and critiqued by supervisors of officials, college assigners, and college officials. (officiating camps)

Again, unfortunately, this just isn't true. Unless the official in question is self-motivated, hoping to improve, and looking to move up into the college ranks. But then, that official is going to work hard and do well in a 2-man game, just like in a 3-man game.

most of the other states around the country all high school games are officiated by a 3 person crew.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just wondering how you know this. Did you do some kind of survey? My impression is that 3-man on the HS level is still widely resisted. If you're right, I think that's great. But if NYC, which has some of the best HS basketball on the planet, doesn't use 3-man, why would you suppose that "most" other states do? Again, I don't know the facts; so if you are right, I gladly stand corrected.

The advantage is better coverage

This is pretty much the only thing that I agree with in your article. I think that anybody who has worked 3-man, or any coach that has had 3-man crews, will tell you that the off-ball coverage is much better. Additionally, you don't have the Lead official reaching across the lane to call fouls, b/c the Center official is there. If you want to convince coaches to pay for 3 officials, this is what you need to talk about. The game will be cleaner, there will be better coverage away from the ball to catch the back picks and rebound fouls.

But again, I think the claim that going to 3-man crews will guarantee better and more knowledgable officials is not necessarily true. Best of luck in getting the 3-man crews tho, and I mean that with all sincerity. I think it's better for the game overall.

Chuck

[Tim Roden]

In Texas we are trying to get all games to be three man. We are kind of in the Middle. In Colorado, we had three man only in Colorado Springs. Back to Texas. When the assitant director of TASO came to our camp in may he said that the number one reason that we don't have three person officiating is because the officials are not that good doing three person. The key is to have camps where officials actually go out there and use the mechanic to call games. Get comfortible with it so that everyone can call the game. We are talking about doing a certification system here where at the end of camp, you will get a certification that you can call three person games. I don't know how that will fly but it is a way of telling coaches that these officials can call the game and are good at it.

What has to happen in New York is there has to be a point man. Someone like the president of your local chapter or association who takes the ball and talks to people at every level, coaches, state directors, state associations and really gets people thinking about what they can do to convince the rest that you need to be doing three man. I do disagree that every one else is using three man. I only know a few states that all games are three man. Most states I know are either all two man or part two or part three man. So using the everyone else is doing it argument doesn't work. You can say that more and more states are using it and we are falling behind the rest in not using it ourselves.

The advantages of three man. Better coverage. Longer careers for officials. More room for advancment of younger officials. Disadvantage. better chance for a bad official. More training has to be done. Good luck and let us know how it goes.