Stay out of my pond!

[mick]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

while I agree with your premise that the lead should have never come out to make that call... I think an argument can be made (on phone with Brad I actually argued your POV) that there was a slight touch of the KU player by number 2 of MSU that caused his foot to kick back and trip his other foot. So to categorically say it was an "Unbelievable, bad call" may be a stretch. Just a thought.

Still I don't think I would reach that far to get it when it is that close. I think you have to let the trail live and die with that.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's what I saw. MSU#2 stepped with his left leg, the one with the black wrap on his calf, and extended it out of his vertical space. The KU player running for the inbounds pass caught his toe on the back of that lower leg and this contact redirected his foot behind his other leg resulting in the tangling of his feet and the trip.

I believe that it was a foul.

I have not seen a link this morning, but last night I think I saw what you folks say.

Throughout this discussion, it has not been mentioned that #2 was guarding someone else and paying no attention to the player that was tripped.
Contact was made on the back or side? of #2's leg and the player that tripped must have some responsibility for running too close to, and from behind #2, who was playing good, legal defense when the contact was made.

I've got incidental contact forced by the tripped player from behind.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by mick

I have not seen a link this morning, but last night I think I saw what you folks say.

Throughout this discussion, it has not been mentioned that #2 was guarding someone else and paying no attention to the player that was tripped.
Contact was made on the back or side? of #2's leg and the player that tripped must have some responsibility for running too close to, and from behind #2, who was playing good, legal defense when the contact was made.

I've got incidental contact forced by the tripped player from behind.

Piggy-backing on some of Mick's phrasing here because last night, I THINK I saw a key that hasn't been mentioned. The live telecast showed a somewhat overhead shot and -- THERE WAS CLEARANCE between Nos. 2 and 15.

The guy who "got tripped" actually was trying to avoid his teammate's defender (No. 2) -- and he performed what I believe is called a "karaoke" move ala a linebacker drill (twisting the hips and putting one leg behind another while running sideways). Except he kicked his own foot.

The YouTube clip could never show this because it is a straight horizontal shot and you don't have the depth perception. Same reason the Trail couldn't make the call (if there was one to make, that is). Appears the Lead thought he had a better angle -- just might have been fooled, too. Need to see that other camera angle!

[Kelvin green]

Dont think this started at lead and was enough for lead to chase


I did a freeze frame graphic but could not get it to go here-I am still not good at forum magic...


http://saltlakeproambasketball.info/graphic.aspx you can see the separation between O and D and where the ball is...

I think by the time player gets to ball he is free of the defenders he is trying to get away from. Any contact is incidental....He was going between two defenders.

Common sense says the play is not going to originate very low (FT line area) which is periphery of lead... Based on where it started C has just as good a look through...

Tourney advancement should be based on crews...

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Dont think this started at lead and was enough for lead to chase

I think by the time player gets to ball he is free of the defenders he is trying to get away from. Any contact is incidental....He was going between two defenders.

Common sense says the play is not going to originate very low (FT line area) which is periphery of lead... Based on where it started C has just as good a look through...

Agree, agree and agree.

I guess that neither of us knows how to apply the basic rules of officiating.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Old_School

Agree, agree and agree.

I guess that neither of us knows how to apply the basic rules of officiating.

Agree, agree, agree.

[rockyroad]

Seems to me, refguy, that you need to take a closer look and maybe slow the replay down. The Kansas player tried to squeeze through an area where there wasn't enough space - mainly because his own center, Aldridge, was trying to set a screen and didn't do a very good job of it. Amesman had a great description of what the Kansas kid tried to do. He tripped himself. #2 from MSU did nothing illegal and there should not have been a whistle on this play - especially from an official who could not possibly have a good look at what happened due to all the bodies in that small of an area.

And I needed Kansas to win because my bracket was toasted enough already!!

[Camron Rust]

Good call!

At first view I wondered what the call was for....seemed odd. And even on first replay, I thought he tripped on his own foot. On additional replay, I saw that that #2 stepped into the cutter's path and clipped is leg, ultimately causing the fall. That "little" clip was the reason for the fall, and clearly was an advantage, and was #2 was certainly ont in an LGP on the cutter when he moved his foot into the cutter's path. It took a few steps to materialize but there was a foul. The fact that the space was tight didn't give #2 the right to make it tighter by extending his foot into the path of the cutter.

I felt the lead was going to pass on the call until it led to the fall. And I felt it was as much in the lead's primary as anything else...the player came from his area and leaving no one else to look at in that space, the lead looked at the convergence of the players from the backside...and angle the trail didn't have. Plus the point of the clip/trip was a long way from where the fall occurred....perhaps even below the FT line.