Stay out of my pond!

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If you saw the end of the MSU-KU game, then you saw exactly why you don't fish in somebody else's pond.

With less than a minute to play, KU inbounds the ball at the division line. K1 races to the throw-in, TRIPS over his OWN feet, catches the ball and falls near the division line. The LEAD races out and calls a MSU foul, with the trail looking at him like he's got two heads.

Unbelievable, bad call.

while I agree with your premise that the lead should have never come out to make that call... I think an argument can be made (on phone with Brad I actually argued your POV) that there was a slight touch of the KU player by number 2 of MSU that caused his foot to kick back and trip his other foot. So to categorically say it was an "Unbelievable, bad call" may be a stretch. Just a thought.

Still I don't think I would reach that far to get it when it is that close. I think you have to let the trail live and die with that.

[JRutledge]

I saw the play. That was a terrible call. I understand if he saw it, but he clearly did not. Reggie Greenwood looked baffled.

Peace

[BBall_Junkie]

agree that Reggie looked baffled and had every right to be. I would be hacked off as well.

however, I find it strange, Jeff, that you say he clearly did not see it. How do you know? I am not trying to be an a$$ but you are the one that generally makes the argument that unless you talked to him about the play or what he saw you can't pass judgement You are not him and you have not talked with him about what he saw. So what makes this particular scenario different? Serious question and not trying to troll at all.

again, I would never have put air in my whistle but it is possible that there was slight inadvertent contact that caused collins foot to go backwards enough that at that speed it caused him to clip his other foot and go down. I am not sure as replay does not completely rule that possibility out imo.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

agree that Reggie looked baffled and had every right to be. I would be hacked off as well.

however, I find it strange, Jeff, that you say he clearly did not see it. How do you know? I am not trying to be an a$$ but you are the one that generally makes the argument that unless you talked to him about the play or what he saw you can't pass judgement You are not him and you have not talked with him about what he saw. So what makes this particular scenario different? Serious question and not trying to troll at all.

The Kansas player was a step or two ahead of the MSU player. He clearly did not see what happen, he had to guess. When I saw it live, it looked to me like he fell on his own. I am not sure why you claim he could have seen. It was right in front of Reggie and he passed on the play. It looked like Reggie was contemplating calling a BC violation if the player fell on or over the line.

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

again, I would never have put air in my whistle but it is possible that there was slight inadvertent contact that caused collins foot to go backwards enough that at that speed it caused him to clip his other foot and go down. I am not sure as replay does not completely rule that possibility out imo.

I do not know what the Lead could have seen. It looked like he thought there was contact and there clearly was not.

Peace

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The Kansas player was a step or two ahead of the MSU player. He clearly did not see what happen, he had to guess. When I saw it live, it looked to me like he fell on his own. I am not sure why you claim he could have seen. It was right in front of Reggie and he passed on the play. It looked like Reggie was contemplating calling a BC violation if the player fell on or over the line.



I do not know what the Lead could have seen. It looked like he thought there was contact and there clearly was not.

Peace

I never claimed he did see it. I just find your statements that, you know for a fact that he did not see it, to be incongruent with your typical position.

As I have said I did not like the call at all, and I think the trail has every right to be hacked.

Also, box score on USA today does not list Greenwood at all. They have Luckie, Simmons and Stephens. Was it Greenwood after all?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

I never claimed he did see it. I just find your statements that, you know for a fact that he did not see it, to be incongruent with your typical position.

As I have said I did not like the call at all, and I think the trail has every right to be hacked.

Also, box score on USA today does not list Greenwood at all. They have Luckie, Simmons and Stephens. Was it Greenwood after all?

It looked like Greenwood to me, but the camera angle was so far it was hard to tell on that floor who was working.

Then again it is one call out of a long game. I think the Trail had a better look at the play and that is why Tony started this thread. I said the very same thing in the chat room. And I do not buy the contact before argument, because the Kansas player got away from whatever contact there was. The Kansas player just tripped himself. And this was caused in my opinion because it was so far away from the Lead. The contact if any happened. The contact took outside of the 3 point line. That is a long way to go for the Lead. I would have rather seen a call from the Center.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I saw the play. That was a terrible call. I understand if he saw it, but he clearly did not. Reggie Greenwood looked baffled.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I always find it interesting how people sit on their couch and claim what officials miss. I wonder if I went to their games and could role back the tape and see what they missed.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Unlike you I am not claiming he blew the call based on what was ignored. This was clearly missed because there was no contact, not a play that we have to slow down to know what happen on a travel. And this was one call, not something that was chronic all night. Then again, you do not know basics of college officiating. Stick to what you know.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unlike you I am not claiming he blew the call based on what was ignored. This was clearly missed because there was no contact, not a play that we have to slow down to know what happen on a travel. And this was one call, not something that was chronic all night. Then again, you do not know basics of college officiating.

So you're saying it is ok to criticize one missed call, but not ok to mention something thats occurrence was "chronic all night." Chronic all year (and beyond) is more accurate. If that's a basic of anything, you're right, I don't understand it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So you're saying it is ok to criticize one missed call, but not ok to mention something thats occurrence was "chronic all night." Chronic all year (and beyond) is more accurate. If that's a basic of anything, you're right, I don't understand it.

There is a difference between saying one call or even two calls were wrong, than saying, "They are just ignoring the rule" and "I cannot understand why these guys constantly miss travels."

This was one call and was missed for mechanical reasons, not just a missed call because the video showed it was missed. The trail and his reaction appeared he did not know what the Lead called.

And as someone that is actually in a position to evaluate officials in camps, the first question I would have asked the Trail is "What did you see?" It is likely that the trail did not see the same thing the lead did and that would be the basis of the discussion. That is very different than accusing every official at a level ignoring something on where you only can tell this by replay and we can debate when a pivot foot is established. And the way this entire discussion was started was because the OPer (Tony) wanted to illustrate that not only the call was wrong, but why. I do not recall your position in the other thread was why these calls were missed or even referenced the mechanics (maybe you do not do much 3 person). This was as much about the mechanics and the call.

Peace

[tomegun]

I just want to step in and say that the T was Michael Stephens and not Reggie Greenwood. I know Reggie and it certainly wasn't him.

Nevada, do you have a link to the play? It didn't look like a foul to me, but I want to look at it again to see what you are saying.

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I just want to step in and say that the T was Michael Stephens and not Reggie Greenwood. I know Reggie and it certainly wasn't him.

Nevada, do you have a link to the play? It didn't look like a foul to me, but I want to look at it again to see what you are saying.

Tom...Its 2009 man get a TIVO!!! Just playing with you. Hope to see you around this summer...

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

Tom...Its 2009 man get a TIVO!!! Just playing with you. Hope to see you around this summer...

Are you kidding me? I have two DVRs - trying to keep from paying for a third - and my desktop has a TV tuner card in it. I just wasn't recording the game.

I hope to see you too, but this new ownership group isn't cooperating.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Are you kidding me? I have two DVRs - trying to keep from paying for a third - and my desktop has a TV tuner card in it. I just wasn't recording the game.

I hope to see you too, but this new ownership group isn't cooperating.

I have a feeling they will show this play on SportsCenter. Or the College Gameday show.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I just want to step in and say that the T was Michael Stephens and not Reggie Greenwood. I know Reggie and it certainly wasn't him.

You are correct. I watched Mike Stephens work in Boise during the first weekend.
Officials: Jamie Luckie ,Doug Sirmons ,Michael Stephens

Now did Luckie or Sirmons make this call?

Originally Posted by tomegun

Nevada, do you have a link to the play? It didn't look like a foul to me, but I want to look at it again to see what you are saying.

Just found it on youtube and posted the link in my previous post.