the stare down

[rockyroad]

I use the "look" on players who decide they want to mouth off to myself or a partner...it's not a stare down, it's my "teacher look" that I have perfected after 20 years in a classroom with 7th graders. It works perfectly on those players who are standing at the brink of earning themselves a T and almost always causes them to step back and tone it down. Usually the coach will react to it also - I think the "teacher look" and the "mother look" are universally understood.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I use the "look" on players who decide they want to mouth off to myself or a partner...it's not a stare down, it's my "teacher look" that I have perfected after 20 years in a classroom with 7th graders. It works perfectly on those players who are standing at the brink of earning themselves a T and almost always causes them to step back and tone it down. Usually the coach will react to it also - I think the "teacher look" and the "mother look" are universally understood.

Two of my cousins had their mother as an elementary school teacher one year! Yikes!

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Two of my cousins had their mother as an elementary school teacher one year! Yikes!

All three of my sons had their mom (that would be my wife for the challenged ones amongst us) as their 6th grade teacher. She made me sign up for a time and come every time there were parent conferences!! She has a REALLY good "teacher look" that makes my bladder go weak at times.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All you said was the official stared at them and you said it took 3 or 4 seconds.

You were there and these things are very hard to describe. But to suggest that an official should not look/stare at players I am going to have to disagree. I have done this and it works very well for me. My job is not to be Mr. Nice guy with everyone; I have a job to do. I also give very few Ts during the season and it is often things I say and when I say them and when I look at players or coaches too. I would rather look at an official than yell at a player any day. And if it happen with a playoff official you might need to realize they did something right, they are still working. And the level would tell me even more.

Peace

You may want to read again

"Calling official has a foul and gives the hard, 3-4 second glare "I gotcha" look to the player as if he was caught shoplifting."


And yes, you had to be there, so it's probably not worth discussing unless you saw it all night. As I said, it's a minor thing, just my opinion, and all I'm saying is the glare/scowl wasn't needed. On occasion it is.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I almost fell out of my seat laughing so hard.

What do you want officials to do then? Not say anything or do anything to a kid to ever intimidate them? If players think they can do whatever without consequences, they will do it. We have the right to let them know they are crossing a line or close to that line.

This is the problem with our society. We have adults that advocate that people in authority cannot do things to restore order. I can tell you what I am going to do is a lot nicer than the woman that yelled at the kid in the stands that said something inappropriate. Our tool is to also T, but if I can prevent that with some intimidation that they know I am aware of their behavior or their teammates are aware of their behavior, that is a win-win for me.

It is my right as an adult to not have some kid in my face when I am in an authoritative position like an official, teacher, coach, principal or most of all parents.

Peace

Whoa Jeff, come on back to herd fella. Stay on point, there was no mention of 'restore order'. It was choir boy nice at this game.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I use the "look" on players who decide they want to mouth off to myself or a partner...it's not a stare down, it's my "teacher look" that I have perfected after 20 years in a classroom with 7th graders. It works perfectly on those players who are standing at the brink of earning themselves a T and almost always causes them to step back and tone it down. Usually the coach will react to it also - I think the "teacher look" and the "mother look" are universally understood.

Precisely, it's not a look you initiate but a reaction to a previous action.

I do it many a time.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Sorry, but I give a "stare" sometimes also. Always involves a kid who is either being disrepectful or is encroaching the territory of playing dirty. Sometimes the "stare" serves the purpose of letting the kid know he is being watched.

No need to be sorry, it was warranted. It's safe to say you don't do this when it's not warranted.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

All three of my sons had their mom (that would be my wife for the challenged ones amongst us) as their 6th grade teacher...

It's sad that you had to clarify this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

You may want to read again

"Calling official has a foul and gives the hard, 3-4 second glare "I gotcha" look to the player as if he was caught shoplifting."


And yes, you had to be there, so it's probably not worth discussing unless you saw it all night. As I said, it's a minor thing, just my opinion, and all I'm saying is the glare/scowl wasn't needed. On occasion it is.

I think this is more about your preception of what took place than whether it is acceptable or not. Now I was not there and maybe it was not the best look, but if that is all the official did, I can live with that. You are not accusing him of saying anything inappropriate. If all he did was look (scowl or glare) I can live with this. And as I said this works for me very well. It sends the message I want to send and it usually stops the behavior and I have not said a single word.

Originally Posted by fullor30

Whoa Jeff, come on back to herd fella. Stay on point, there was no mention of 'restore order'. It was choir boy nice at this game.

If I am not on point, what are you suggesting the official do? Why is it inappropriate for an authority figure to simply look at a "student" when their behavior is inappropriate? Remember, you added all the "gotcha" stuff in the look. You or I have no idea what was said before and what was said afterwards. And even if that was the look, so what, the kid has not business popping off or acting like this is the NBA. Kids should accept the call and go to their next position.

Peace

[MajorCord]

Is this the "look" everybody is talking about?

[WreckRef]

Probably more like this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I am sorry if my opinion is not conducive to your opinion. But hopefully you can conceed I am entitled to mine.

When did I say you were not entitled to your opinion? That is why we are here right, to share opinions right?

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Now as an answer to some of the items you mentioned you have other resources to deal with these kids who are crossing the line, Technicals or if they get in your "face" as you say, then toss them I suppose.

There was no suggestion that the official got in the kids face. But if getting in a kid's face is a problem then what do you want officials to do when they want to talk directly to a player. I have had several times where players are doing the little "You push my hand, I am going to move your hand" routine. Do you think I do not say anything to the players or approach them? I guess I am getting in their face by doing this based on how you want things to be handled. BTW, the best officials I know have tools in their toolbox to handle situations without giving a T.

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

BUT it is my honest opinion that you make the call and move on, you don't stand there and stare at a young person and "try" (term used loosly) to intimidate them. That is all I am saying, Do one or the other but don't be the big Bully (again loose terminology).

Once again, the claim was this was only 3 or 4 seconds long. Based on how it is taught by many clinicians (and since I am one in my state and this did happen in my state); it is encouraged that officials stay at the spot of the foul and not just leave. I know I have stood around longer at the spot when players hit the floor or to make sure I get the proper number when the foul is in a crowd. It is possible that the "scowl" was not an intentional act and no one has pointed it out to the official. Or it could have been a purposeful act to let the player know to knock it off or he is being watched. Without video none of us really will know for sure. It is possible that Fullor30 is reading too much into the situation. I know I have no problem being asked about things I do. Many officials I know come in and ask questions after the game (during the playoffs) so they can have situations clarified so they can learn. I know I do the very same thing when I watch games. I just think there is too much speculation without actually talking to the official.

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I understand Juulies meaning when she says give them the look. I already clarified that. The intent that you seem to find in my comments is unfounded.
I don't see any point in continuing this further.

On some level I feel they are unfounded. I feel that way for one I have never heard anyone suggest you cannot look at players (officials or camps that have much more information than I could ever offer at this time). And that is why many people here that are veterans have told you they do similar things or have seen the tool used. It just sound like you personally do not like the tactic (which is your right) but have not explained why it should not be used other than a personal opinion. That is why it is unfounded on some level to me (your words not mine).

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think this is more about your preception of what took place than whether it is acceptable or not. Now I was not there and maybe it was not the best look, but if that is all the official did, I can live with that. You are not accusing him of saying anything inappropriate. If all he did was look (scowl or glare) I can live with this. And as I said this works for me very well. It sends the message I want to send and it usually stops the behavior and I have not said a single word.



If I am not on point, what are you suggesting the official do? Why is it inappropriate for an authority figure to simply look at a "student" when their behavior is inappropriate? Remember, you added all the "gotcha" stuff in the look. You or I have no idea what was said before and what was said afterwards. And even if that was the look, so what, the kid has not business popping off or acting like this is the NBA. Kids should accept the call and go to their next position.

Peace

Their behavior was not inappropriate, that's the point.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three of four seconds is not a very long period of time. And if you are looking at them, you are looking at them to see what they are doing next.

This is not tidily winks we are talking about here. If a player is jumping up and down throwing their arms around, they are going to have me looking at them. Next move is a T if they do not stop or if they keep up their little antics.

The question that needs to be asked, what did the player do and what did his teammates do after this incident? But to say that we cannot look at players is silly. One of the most affective ways from my parents to get a point across was not without a single word being said. This works for officials too.

Peace

Rut:

My dad subscribed to the same philosphy the Bill Cosby's dad did: When he spanked me he didn't hit for accuracy he hit for distance, .

MTD, Sr.


P.S. More importantly though, is I agree with your entire post 100%

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Their behavior was not inappropriate, that's the point.

Are you saying the player's behavior was not inappropriate?

If that is what you are saying, how do you know? Did you hear what was said? Did you know what was said earlier?

Peace