the stare down

[fullor30]

State playoff time in Illinois and I was out watching a few first round games.

I saw something last night that on the scale of things is minor but yet I never like to see. Calling official has a foul and gives the hard, 3-4 second glare "I gotcha" look to the player as if he was caught shoplifting. Not a big fan of this. I can understand selling a call involving a scrum on the floor that may require bird dogging or closing in that you saw it, but the pedestrian, block, shooting foul etc. that warrants the stare and scowl looks silly to me.

[bas2456]

I agree. I think that's an effort by the official to show up the player, and I think that's unnecessary.

[Juulie Downs]

"The Look" can be used effectively when the infraction is very borderline, there's no A/D involved, kid knows he did it, and demonstrates remorse after receiving The Look. Once the foul (or violation) is called it's too late. THEN it's just power-trippin'.

[SmokeEater]

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you Juulie. If it works for you that's great but I personally don't think that there is ever a need for an official (especially if your an adult) to stare down a player. It is an intimidating appearance and is that the impression that needs to be delivered.

Again that is my opinion and your welcome to it, Free of Charge.

[GoodwillRef]

This officials favorite men's college basketball official must be Ed Hightower!

[JRutledge]

Three of four seconds is not a very long period of time. And if you are looking at them, you are looking at them to see what they are doing next.

This is not tidily winks we are talking about here. If a player is jumping up and down throwing their arms around, they are going to have me looking at them. Next move is a T if they do not stop or if they keep up their little antics.

The question that needs to be asked, what did the player do and what did his teammates do after this incident? But to say that we cannot look at players is silly. One of the most affective ways from my parents to get a point across was not without a single word being said. This works for officials too.

Peace

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you Juulie. If it works for you that's great but I personally don't think that there is ever a need for an official (especially if your an adult) to stare down a player. It is an intimidating appearance and is that the impression that needs to be delivered.

Again that is my opinion and your welcome to it, Free of Charge.

Yea, free advice is worth what you pay for it...

I'm not talking about staring them down. I'm talking about the look your mom gives you when you're onstage singing in the choir, and you are holding up the "rabbit ears' behind the person next to you; or you're waving to someone. It says, "I'm not gonna do anything yet, but don't push me". It only takes a second, and it doesn't requre the kid to break the eye contact, you can do that yourself. You put up one eyebrow, tilt chin slightly downward, and just glower for a second. Then put face back to normal and go on about business. Yup, it works for me, and it might work for others.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

This officials favorite men's college basketball official must be Ed Hightower!

LOL! You beat me to the punch with that one.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Three of four seconds is not a very long period of time. And if you are looking at them, you are looking at them to see what they are doing next.

This is not tidily winks we are talking about here. If a player is jumping up and down throwing their arms around, they are going to have me looking at them. Next move is a T if they do not stop or if they keep up their little antics.

The question that needs to be asked, what did the player do and what did his teammates do after this incident? But to say that we cannot look at players is silly. One of the most affective ways from my parents to get a point across was not without a single word being said. This works for officials too.

Peace

A look and a stare with the scowl are two different things. I understand if a player is throwing up his hands etc. As I mentioned I'm refering to normal fouls, that warrant no drama from an official especially when no emotion has been displayed by offender. Again silly looking in my opinion.

I'm always 'looking' yet I don't stand frozen, glaring at the offender.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

A look and a stare with the scowl are two different things. I understand if a player is throwing up his hands etc. As I mentioned I'm refering to normal fouls, that warrant no drama from an official especially when no emotion has been displayed by offender. Again silly looking in my opinion.

I'm always 'looking' yet I don't stand frozen, glaring at the offender.

All you said was the official stared at them and you said it took 3 or 4 seconds.

You were there and these things are very hard to describe. But to suggest that an official should not look/stare at players I am going to have to disagree. I have done this and it works very well for me. My job is not to be Mr. Nice guy with everyone; I have a job to do. I also give very few Ts during the season and it is often things I say and when I say them and when I look at players or coaches too. I would rather look at an official than yell at a player any day. And if it happen with a playoff official you might need to realize they did something right, they are still working. And the level would tell me even more.

Peace

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

Yea, free advice is worth what you pay for it...

I'm not talking about staring them down. I'm talking about the look your mom gives you when you're onstage singing in the choir, and you are holding up the "rabbit ears' behind the person next to you; or you're waving to someone. It says, "I'm not gonna do anything yet, but don't push me". It only takes a second, and it doesn't requre the kid to break the eye contact, you can do that yourself. You put up one eyebrow, tilt chin slightly downward, and just glower for a second. Then put face back to normal and go on about business. Yup, it works for me, and it might work for others.

Yes I understood that you said it was "The Look". And I get its a look that really a mother has perfected. My reference is like you say to stare down a player in a fashion that is just daring them to "go ahead try anythign and I'm a gonna ring ya up". Those stares are teh intimidating ones that have no place in our game. Thanks for clearing it all up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Yes I understood that you said it was "The Look". And I get its a look that really a mother has perfected. My reference is like you say to stare down a player in a fashion that is just daring them to "go ahead try anythign and I'm a gonna ring ya up". Those stares are teh intimidating ones that have no place in our game. Thanks for clearing it all up.

I almost fell out of my seat laughing so hard.

What do you want officials to do then? Not say anything or do anything to a kid to ever intimidate them? If players think they can do whatever without consequences, they will do it. We have the right to let them know they are crossing a line or close to that line.

This is the problem with our society. We have adults that advocate that people in authority cannot do things to restore order. I can tell you what I am going to do is a lot nicer than the woman that yelled at the kid in the stands that said something inappropriate. Our tool is to also T, but if I can prevent that with some intimidation that they know I am aware of their behavior or their teammates are aware of their behavior, that is a win-win for me.

It is my right as an adult to not have some kid in my face when I am in an authoritative position like an official, teacher, coach, principal or most of all parents.

Peace

[Raymond]

Sorry, but I give a "stare" sometimes also. Always involves a kid who is either being disrepectful or is encroaching the territory of playing dirty. Sometimes the "stare" serves the purpose of letting the kid know he is being watched.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I almost fell out of my seat laughing so hard.

What do you want officials to do then? Not say anything or do anything to a kid to ever intimidate them? If players think they can do whatever without consequences, they will do it. We have the right to let them know they are crossing a line or close to that line.

This is the problem with our society. We have adults that advocate that people in authority cannot do things to restore order. I can tell you what I am going to do is a lot nicer than the woman that yelled at the kid in the stands that said something inappropriate. Our tool is to also T, but if I can prevent that with some intimidation that they know I am aware of their behavior or their teammates are aware of their behavior, that is a win-win for me.

It is my right as an adult to not have some kid in my face when I am in an authoritative position like an official, teacher, coach, principal or most of all parents.

Peace

I am sorry if my opinion is not conducive to your opinion. But hopefully you can conceed I am entitled to mine.

Now as an answer to some of the items you mentioned you have other resources to deal with these kids who are crossing the line, Technicals or if they get in your "face" as you say, then toss them I suppose.

BUT it is my honest opinion that you make the call and move on, you don't stand there and stare at a young person and "try" (term used loosly) to intimidate them. That is all I am saying, Do one or the other but don't be the big Bully (again loose terminology).

I understand Juulies meaning when she says give them the look. I already clarified that. The intent that you seem to find in my comments is unfounded.
I don't see any point in continuing this further.

[Mark Padgett]

I only use the stare down in 3rd grade games. Sometimes the kids cry, especially the girls.