THIS had never happened . . . until now!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

I had to share this story, because honestly, it is cracking me up. Anyway . . .

I am assigned 3A boys game tonight (1st round playoffs). I was requested by both coaches so I get the game. Great game! Team A up in the 1st, Team B comes back to tie, then goes ahead by one. 2nd Q, Team A stinks it up and goes in at half down by 12. 3rd Q is even, so change in the difference in scores. 4th Q, Team A makes a run, gets it to 2 with 41.9 sec left to play. Each team exchanges a couple of baskets and Team B holds on to win by 4 after a couple fouls by Team A.

Now the "never happened to me" part. We get off the floor after the final horn/buzzer, b/c I don't ever stay on the floor after the game. We do our post-game talk, take a shower and head out of the gym. I get to my truck and notice a note under my windshield wiper. When I get home I take it out and read it. [I THOUGHT it was a note from my G/F who had been at the game. As Ron White might say, "I was WRONG!!"]

So I open the note, written on the back of an old envelope, and it says, "Go Back to Referee School cause you don't know what your doing." Probably from an old bill too . . . I can't get no respect!

Of course, they didn't leave a return address either. Darn . . .

So in your area the officials who are chummy with the coaches and please them get the games. Not a criticism of you, but rather of the way that your area does it. This is the kind of thing that I find offensive. Not only could it compromise the integrity of the game, but it is grossly unfair to any quality official who is not liked by a coach. The assignor should put who he believes will perform the best on the floor, not who the coaches like.

Actually, it appears that your familiarity with a one of these persons came back to bite you tonight. You are fortunate that this individual did not damage your vehicle.

[bigdogrunnin]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So in your area the officials who are chummy with the coaches and please them get the games. Not a criticism of you, but rather of the way that your area does it. This is the kind of thing that I find offensive. Not only could it compromise the integrity of the game, but it is grossly unfair to any quality official who is not liked by a coach. The assignor should put who he believes will perform the best on the floor, not who the coaches like.

Actually, it appears that your familiarity with a one of these persons came back to bite you tonight. You are fortunate that this individual did not damage your vehicle.

First, I take great offense to the comment in RED. I am NOT "chummy" with the coaches. In fact, most coaches don't like the fact that when I officiate I am very "matter of fact." And, because you clearly aren't aware of how the system works here, let me provide you with some background . . .

See, the two playoff team’s head coaches meet to decide all types of factors, such as:

1. Where they will play the playoff game.
2. Who will be the home team.
3. What CHAPTER they will use.
4. etc., etc.

The two coaches in this case agreed on the Chapter because both happen to use our Chapter during the season. Then, both coaches submitted lists of officials that they would like to have on the game. Both lists were sent INDEPENDENTLY to our Chapter Assignor. He looked at both lists to find any common officials. There were four, and I was one of the four. Another official was chosen as the alternate after I confirmed that I was available for the game . . . through a phone call with my Chapter Assignor.

Now, that being said, coaches all over the country choose officials all the time. How do you think Steve Welmer gets 120 games every year?? Also, in Texas, especially in the playoffs, most assignments come from the UIL (our governing body for athletics). The UIL calls a chapter close to where the game will be played and then the Chapter’s Board or the President & Assigning Secretary then choose who will be on the game. (Got a couple of those this year too, and a Regional Assignment.)

Finally, I am the #2 RANKED official in our Chapter, so for me, there is NO question of whether or not I deserved the game. And to add, I took it as an honor that both coaches INDEPENDENTLY requested four quality officials and I was fortunate enough to be among them. If that bothers you, or anyone else for that matter, well, there’s nothing I can do about that.

OH, and as for familiarity, it's hard to get "familiar" with a school or team that you call 2 times in a season that runs from October to March. Don't you think??

[cardinalfan]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

First, I take great offense to the comment in RED. I am NOT "chummy" with the coaches. In fact, most coaches don't like the fact that when I officiate I am very "matter of fact." And, because you clearly aren't aware of how the system works here, let me provide you with some background . . .

See, the two playoff team’s head coaches meet to decide all types of factors, such as:

1. Where they will play the playoff game.
2. Who will be the home team.
3. What CHAPTER they will use.
4. etc., etc.

The two coaches in this case agreed on the Chapter because both happen to use our Chapter during the season. Then, both coaches submitted lists of officials that they would like to have on the game. Both lists were sent INDEPENDENTLY to our Chapter Assignor. He looked at both lists to find any common officials. There were four, and I was one of the four. Another official was chosen as the alternate after I confirmed that I was available for the game . . . through a phone call with my Chapter Assignor.

Now, that being said, coaches all over the country choose officials all the time. How do you think Steve Welmer gets 120 games every year?? Also, in Texas, especially in the playoffs, most assignments come from the UIL (our governing body for athletics). The UIL calls a chapter close to where the game will be played and then the Chapter’s Board or the President & Assigning Secretary then choose who will be on the game. (Got a couple of those this year too, and a Regional Assignment.)

Finally, I am the #2 RANKED official in our Chapter, so for me, there is NO question of whether or not I deserved the game. And to add, I took it as an honor that both coaches INDEPENDENTLY requested four quality officials and I was fortunate enough to be among them. If that bothers you, or anyone else for that matter, well, there’s nothing I can do about that.

OH, and as for familiarity, it's hard to get "familiar" with a school or team that you call 2 times in a season that runs from October to March. Don't you think??

I wouldn't get too offended by the comments. Until you explained it, I must admit I thought it was odd that you were requested by the coaches for a playoff game.
I guess every state or association does things differently.

[SmokeEater]

I don't find it unusual at all. He has obviously earned his reputation and is noticed for the work done previously. A similar thing happened to me at a VB tournament last week. Because of weather the schedules got all messed up and the finals were moved to late on Saturday. The director of the tournamnet called our assignor and specifically asked for my partner and I because we had done previous games in the tournament and got good reviews from every coach involved.
Seems fair to me. Well done I say and YES take it as a HUGE COMPLIMENT.

[GoodwillRef]

Coaches should not have a direct influence such as this in deciding who works their playoff games (or conference games).

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by cardinalfan

I wouldn't get too offended by the comments. Until you explained it, I must admit I thought it was odd that you were requested by the coaches for a playoff game.
I guess every state or association does things differently.

Ditto.......still seems a bit odd.

[amusedofficial]

I'm sure the OP is honest, hardworking and a great official.

But the system his association uses stinks.

Anytime coaches exert any kind of influence over who works tournament or prestige games, there is a cloud over all officials in every game.

These two coaches may have played each other twice during the season, and gotten a look at their preferred coaches in a head to head tilt. But I doubt it. More likely, the teams didn't play during the season, or if they did it wasn't necessarily with the same officials. So a lot of the coach's impression is based on the official's work in games featuring a contending team against non-contenders.

If coaches can influence who works their games, then the coach of a contender makes a recommendation based, in major part, on the official's performance in games against a non-contenders, it leads to allegations that officials working such games are trying to get in good with the contending coach to get tournament games.

It stinks to high heaven. Let coaches coach, let officials ref and let evaluators evaluate.

[Zoochy]

I was lucky enough to be selected to officiate a 1st round and a semi-final post season District games. I believe the process of selecting officials goes this way. Coaches of the participating schools submit a list of 'Want' and 'Do NOT Want' officials to the Athletic Director. The AD's of the, host schools, gets together with the other AD's, of host schools, and select officials (Hopefully from the list). They select the officials for their final game first, then the semi-final, and so on. This year, School 'A' hosts District games. Official 'A' use to be employed by that school. He was the Varsity Boys Head Coach at one time and he also was the AD for that school. I believe he got selected for all 3 rounds at the school. 95% of the game is who you know, the other 25% is your skill.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I was lucky enough to be selected to officiate a 1st round and a semi-final post season District games. I believe the process of selecting officials goes this way. Coaches of the participating schools submit a list of 'Want' and 'Do NOT Want' officials to the Athletic Director. The AD's of the, host schools, gets together with the other AD's, of host schools, and select officials (Hopefully from the list). They select the officials for their final game first, then the semi-final, and so on. This year, School 'A' hosts District games. Official 'A' use to be employed by that school. He was the Varsity Boys Head Coach at one time and he also was the AD for that school. I believe he got selected for all 3 rounds at the school. 95% of the game is who you know, the other 25% is your skill.

Good thing only 3% is math.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I was lucky enough to be selected to officiate a 1st round and a semi-final post season District games. I believe the process of selecting officials goes this way. Coaches of the participating schools submit a list of 'Want' and 'Do NOT Want' officials to the Athletic Director. The AD's of the, host schools, gets together with the other AD's, of host schools, and select officials (Hopefully from the list). They select the officials for their final game first, then the semi-final, and so on. This year, School 'A' hosts District games. Official 'A' use to be employed by that school. He was the Varsity Boys Head Coach at one time and he also was the AD for that school. I believe he got selected for all 3 rounds at the school. 95% of the game is who you know, the other 25% is your skill.

Gee, I never thought I'd say this, But Illinois, land of Blago, seems to be very equitable compared a few states mentioned here.

[zm1283]

I'm not sure how prevalent this is in other states, but in Missouri coaches rate officials after every game. They use a 1-5 scale, with 1 being the best. At the end of the season, you have an average rating for the year. I don't think many officials really care for it, myself included.

For district tournaments, the district chairs (The athletic directors at each host site) draft officials for their site. The officials put in a request to work a district and they are put on the draft list.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I'm not sure how prevalent this is in other states, but in Missouri coaches rate officials after every game. They use a 1-5 scale, with 1 being the best. At the end of the season, you have an average rating for the year. I don't think many officials really care for it, myself included.

For district tournaments, the district chairs (The athletic directors at each host site) draft officials for their site. The officials put in a request to work a district and they are put on the draft list.

Post cards? Phone calls?

Anyone, does Arbiter.net have a coaches interface? So they can see the officials who are assigned, and give feedback/rate?

Wondering whether that functionality is built in to Arbiter.

[Texas Aggie]

So in your area the officials who are chummy with the coaches and please them get the games.

Since he didn't say anything close to that, why are you trying to start something?

[BillyMac]

Here in Connecticut, the coaches, all of them, not just the ones whose teams made state tournament (40% winning percentage), vote for officials to work tournament games. The ones with the most votes, work all the way to the state finals. The officials with fewer votes, drop out as the rounds progress. Some exceptions. If both schools are from our local board, then our officials will get those games. If one school is from board A, and another is from Board B, then officials from Board C, or Board D, will work the game. Believe it or not, the coaches make excellent choices. The guys who are selected for the tournament are usually our better officials, in terms of colleague ratings, and rankings. The ones selected for state finals are usually the cream of the crop, our best officials.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

First, I take great offense to the comment in RED. I am NOT "chummy" with the coaches. In fact, most coaches don't like the fact that when I officiate I am very "matter of fact." And, because you clearly aren't aware of how the system works here, let me provide you with some background . . .

See, the two playoff team’s head coaches meet to decide all types of factors, such as:

1. Where they will play the playoff game.
2. Who will be the home team.
3. What CHAPTER they will use.
4. etc., etc.

The two coaches in this case agreed on the Chapter because both happen to use our Chapter during the season. Then, both coaches submitted lists of officials that they would like to have on the game. Both lists were sent INDEPENDENTLY to our Chapter Assignor. He looked at both lists to find any common officials. There were four, and I was one of the four. Another official was chosen as the alternate after I confirmed that I was available for the game . . . through a phone call with my Chapter Assignor.

Now, that being said, coaches all over the country choose officials all the time. How do you think Steve Welmer gets 120 games every year?? Also, in Texas, especially in the playoffs, most assignments come from the UIL (our governing body for athletics). The UIL calls a chapter close to where the game will be played and then the Chapter’s Board or the President & Assigning Secretary then choose who will be on the game. (Got a couple of those this year too, and a Regional Assignment.)

Finally, I am the #2 RANKED official in our Chapter, so for me, there is NO question of whether or not I deserved the game. And to add, I took it as an honor that both coaches INDEPENDENTLY requested four quality officials and I was fortunate enough to be among them. If that bothers you, or anyone else for that matter, well, there’s nothing I can do about that.

OH, and as for familiarity, it's hard to get "familiar" with a school or team that you call 2 times in a season that runs from October to March. Don't you think??

IMO...this is a very stupid way to run your playoff system...but just my opinion.