Charging + count the basket

[HoopsAnnouncer]

Hi,

I'm a college basketball announcer. I saw a play yesterday which I've never seen before and want some clarification on the rule.

Player A1 sprinted to the lane, hit a leaner, and then was called for a charge. I initially thought they were waving off the basket.

It turns out they gave him the basket and the foul, Team B's ball.

What is the exact rule here? I couldn't find it anywhere in the rule book (NCAA.Org).

Also how common is a play like this?

Thanks.

[UNH IM Ref]

Doesn't make any sense, should be either going to the line or waving off the basket.

Could it have been a mistake?

[LSams]

in NCAA -- if the ball is released on the shot, prior to the contact -- the ball is not dead. Therefore if the ball goes in, the basket counts -- player control foul on the shooter -- ball goes the other way.

This is different than the high school rule, where the ball is dead immediately on the player control foul.

[mbyron]

I believe NCAAM has a different rule (from NFHS) for this: count the bucket if a PC foul occurs after the try is released.

NCAA rules are online at eofficials.com.

[canuckrefguy]

Unless I'm mistaken - in NCAA mens rules - the foul is not a PC foul, as there is no PC after the ball is released for a shot.

Therefore, the foul is a pushing foul. If the foul had been the team's 7th of the half, the guy that got crashed would be awarded the 1-and-1.

NCAA womens rules do not allow for this - if you crash someone, even after releasing the ball, they wave the basket and go the other way.

Do I have it right? The FIBA rule is count the hoop and call a pushing foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

NCAA womens rules do not allow for this - if you crash someone, even after releasing the ball, they wave the basket and go the other way.

Most likely. In the unlikely event that the shooter releases, lands, and then pushes, you would count the basket as it is now a common foul. Same in high school.

[JPNY25]

NCAA Men, player control ends upon the release of the shot. Thus the foul is a pushing foul, and the basket counts. Team B will shoot if this is the 7th foul as player control has ended.

As has already been stated, this rule is different than NFHS. In high school, player control does not end immediately upon the release of the ball on the shot.

Regards,

Jim

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by HoopsAnnouncer

Player A1 sprinted to the lane, hit a leaner, and then was called for a charge. I initially thought they were waving off the basket. It turns out they gave him the basket and the foul, Team B's ball. What is the exact rule here? I couldn't find it anywhere in the rule book .

Originally Posted by LSams

In NCAA, if the ball is released on the shot, prior to the contact, the ball is not dead. Therefore if the ball goes in, the basket counts, player control foul on the shooter, ball goes the other way. This is different than the high school rule, where the ball is dead immediately on the player control foul.

Originally Posted by mbyron

I believe NCAAM has a different rule, from NFHS, for this: count the bucket if a PC foul occurs after the try is released.

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Unless I'm mistaken, in NCAA mens rules, the foul is not a PC foul, as there is no PC after the ball is released for a shot. Therefore, the foul is a pushing foul. If the foul had been the team's 7th of the half, the guy that got crashed would be awarded the 1-and-1.

Originally Posted by JPNY25

NCAA Men, player control ends upon the release of the shot. Thus the foul is a pushing foul, and the basket counts. Team B will shoot if this is the 7th foul as player control has ended. As has already been stated, this rule is different than NFHS. In high school, player control does not end immediately upon the release of the ball on the shot.

Who is old enough, I mean, who is experienced enough (how's that, better?) to remember when the NFHS had the same rule as the NCAA? The best part of this call was that if the offended team was in the bonus, then both coaches got a little something out of the call. One team got a field goal, and the other team got a one and one free throw attempt. Neither coach got too excited. With the NFHS rule today, one coach is going to be very displeased, his player picks up a personal foul, and the basket doesn't count. If the call was close, you always know that you're going to get an earful.

HoopsAnnouncer: Thanks for coming here to find out the correct answer. Please encourage your colleagues, especially those on television, to come here for help, when they need it, which is almost all the time.

Oh, I almost forgot. Welcome to the jungle, I mean, to the Forum.

[dbking]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Who is old enough, I mean, who is experienced enough (how's that, better?) to remember when the NFHS had the same rule as the NCAA? The best part of this call was that if the offended team was in the bonus, then both coaches got a little something out of the call. One team got a field goal, and the other team got a one and one free throw attempt. Neither coach got too excited. With the NFHS rule today, one coach is going to be very displeased, his player picks up a personal foul, and the basket doesn't count. If the call was close, you always know that you're going to get an earful.

Unfortunately I remember!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by dbking

Unfortunately I remember!

"Pepperidge Farm Remembers". And my hair was a lot darker, too.

[zm1283]

Regarding the NF rule: If the shooter gets back to the floor before the contact is made, I understand that the basket would count assuming it goes in. Is it still a PC foul? I'm going off of what JPNY25 posted a few posts back. I had this discussion the other day with someone. I was trying to convince them that a shot could feasibly count on an offensive foul if the shooter gets back to the floor before the contact happens. The other person said it wouldn't be a PC foul.

[mbyron]

A foul after the airborne shooter returns to the floor would not be a PC foul, since player control ends when the shooter returns to the floor. Nor would it be an offensive foul, since team control ended with the try. So count the bucket if good, and the (former) shooter gets a common foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

A foul after the airborne shooter returns to the floor would not be a PC foul, since player control ends when the shooter returns to the floor. Nor would it be an offensive foul, since team control ended with the try. So count the bucket if good, and the (former) shooter gets a common foul.

... and maybe some free throws for the "foulee" if the other team is in the bonus.

[Texas Aggie]

It isn't a player control foul, but it is a charging foul (the two are not synonymous).

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

It isn't a player control foul, but it is a charging foul (the two are not synonymous).

Yeah I figured it wasn't a PC foul, and I figured it would be a charging foul or a pushing foul. Thanks for the clarification everyone.