10 Second Violation?

[bas2456]

Team A is bringing the ball up the court with some resistance from Team B. As T official, I'm counting and when I get to 9, A1 throws a lob pass across the division line. If I had kept counting, I easily would have gotten to ten. I didn't call a violation because I wasn't sure.

My question is, does someone have to catch the ball in order to "establish" position in the frontcourt?

Or is the ball crossing the timeline enough?

[shishstripes]

By rule the ball is in BC until it touches the floor in FC or is touched by someone in FC so the count continues until it gains FC status.

[bas2456]

Got ya...thanks

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Team A is bringing the ball up the court with some resistance from Team B. As T official, I'm counting and when I get to 9, A1 throws a lob pass across the division line. If I had kept counting, I easily would have gotten to ten. I didn't call a violation because I wasn't sure.

My question is, does someone have to catch the ball in order to "establish" position in the frontcourt?

Or is the ball crossing the timeline enough?

The ball needs to obtain frontcourt status for the count to terminate, and therefore avoid the violation. The ball can obtain FC status by hitting the floor, hitting a player, an official, each solely in the FC, or the ball hitting the Team A basket ring/backboard.

If the ball is airborne from BC to FC and you hit 10, the correct call is a violation.

[Nevadaref]

TEN-SECOND RULE
9.8 SITUATION A: A1 is in A’s backcourt and has dribbled for nine seconds and
then passes the ball forward towards A2 in the frontcourt. While the ball is in the
air traveling from backcourt to frontcourt, the 10-second count is reached.
RULING: Violation by Team A as the ball has not gained frontcourt location. It is
B’s ball for a throw-in from the out-of-bounds spot closest to where A1 released
the ball on the pass toward A2. (4-3; 7-5-2)
9.8 SITUATION B: Team A has control of the ball for eight seconds in A’s backcourt
when A1 passes the ball toward Team A’s frontcourt. The official’s count
continues. The ball strikes the floor in A’s frontcourt and stays there without being
touched by any player. Should the count continue after the ball touches in frontcourt?
RULING: No. The backcourt count should be terminated as soon as the
ball has frontcourt location by touching the floor in Team A’s frontcourt. (4-4-1; 4-4-2)
9.8 SITUATION C: After A1 has dribbled for nine seconds in A’s backcourt: (a)
A1 requests a time-out; or (b) B1 deflects the ball out of bounds. RULING: In both
(a) and (b), Team A will have 10 seconds to advance the ball to frontcourt following
the throw-in if a player of Team A gains control in A’s backcourt.
9.8 SITUATION D: Team A is in control in its backcourt for seven seconds. A1
throws the ball toward A2 in the frontcourt. B1 jumps from Team A’s: (a) frontcourt;
or (b) backcourt and while in the air bats the ball back to A1 in A’s backcourt.
Does this give Team A 10 more seconds to get the ball to the frontcourt?
RULING: Yes, in (a), a new count starts because B1 had frontcourt location when
touching the ball thus giving the ball frontcourt location. In (b), the original count
continues as Team A is still in control and the ball has not gone to frontcourt. (4-4-2; 4-3; 4-35-1)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If the ball is airborne from BC to FC and you hit 10, the correct call is a violation.

True. And every coach around here will scream bloody murder if you call this. (I have not had to call it yet, but I enjoy a little bloody murder now and again.)

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If the ball is airborne from BC to FC and you hit 10, the correct call is a violation.

Provided the ball is far from the ground and any player. I'd prefer to "miss" a call when the ball gains FC status at 10.1 seconds than calling a violation at 9.99 seconds, (that is, 8.1 and 7.99 in FIBA): our count cannot be accurate to tenths of a second. It's just like for traveling: we don't call it unless we are sure the player traveled.

Ciao

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Provided the ball is far from the ground and any player. I'd prefer to "miss" a call when the ball gains FC status at 10.1 seconds than calling a violation at 9.99 seconds, (that is, 8.1 and 7.99 in FIBA): our count cannot be accurate to tenths of a second. It's just like for traveling: we don't call it unless we are sure the player traveled.

Ciao

Why penalize the defense for your lack of confidence in your ability to count?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Provided the ball is far from the ground and any player. I'd prefer to "miss" a call when the ball gains FC status at 10.1 seconds than calling a violation at 9.99 seconds, (that is, 8.1 and 7.99 in FIBA): our count cannot be accurate to tenths of a second. It's just like for traveling: we don't call it unless we are sure the player traveled.

Ciao

Sometimes two events happen so very close together that it is very difficult to determine which happened first. On those plays, I tend to lean towards the no violation or no foul as well.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

Why penalize the defense for your lack of confidence in your ability to count?

That's not lack of confidence. It's a fact that a count by an official cannot be accurate to the tenth of a second, since even the best trained official has to follow the play, with a pressing defence and maybe some change of rhythm. So I'd allow some "uncertainty" when the call would be very close. It's easier to count accurately when still, like during a throw-in, than when moving.

A shot clock device could be useful in a situation like the OP's one. In FIBA the two counts start at the same time and with a lob pass there's time to look at the shot clock (and maybe realize that it differs from the official's count due to an error of the operator). FIBA rules point out that the 8 second count is made by the official, but nothing prevents the official to seek aid from the device, if there is the possibility. I wouldn't look at the device when a pressed player is crossing the division line, but during a lob pass it's a different thing.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

By rule the ball is in BC until it touches the floor in FC or is touched by someone in FC so the count continues until it gains FC status.

And BAS, note that the ball touching the floor in FC does give it FC status. I have dropped my 10 sec count for this very reason only to have the defensive coach scream that the count doesn't stop until a PLAYER touches the ball in FC.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Sometimes two events happen so very close together that it is very difficult to determine which happened first. On those plays, I tend to lean towards the no violation or no foul as well.

Same here. Although some will say it's penalizing the defense, I view it as a game flow interruptor. Agonize over a fraction of a second...stop the game...send it the other way.

Look at it the same as a foul...call the obvious.