Violation?

rwest · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 01:59pm

Team B inbounding the ball after a made basket. B1 has the ball in his hands and passes to B2 who is on the court running toward the endline. He catches the ball and goes out of bounds to inbound the ball. This is a set play that I've seen before. Is this a violation? If not, why? It seems to me that is should be. Would it be a violation if it was a spot throw-in?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 02:04pm

Is B1 OOB when he passes to B2?

Is B2 inbounds when he catches the ball before going OOB?

If so, then yes, it's a violation.

rwest · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 02:08pm

B1 is OOB and B2 is inbounds when he receives the ball. Does this make a difference? What if B2 is in the air jumping out of bounds when he catches the ball? His momentum takes him out of bounds. Would this be a violation? I've been told no.
My thinking is that it should be a violation. Why would it not be?

Thanks!

Junker · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 02:09pm

I had this situation in my game last night. An assistant coach asked me about it. What I ruled was that it depends on what the official is doing. The play in my game happened as you described, but I don't belive it was a set play, the team was just trying to get the ball to the inbounder for their press break. I ruled that it was not a violation as when the pass oob occurred, I had not yet begun my 5 second count beginning the thow in. If I had begun counting when the oob pass was made, I would have called the violation. I didn't have my books and don't have them now, but that was the way I ruled it. I'm on 100% on this so I'd love to hear some responses.

Adam · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 02:16pm

My $.02
The first player to have the ball oob has established a live throw-in. When he throws it to A2, who is "in-bounds," the ball has now gained inbounds status. Once A2 steps oob, we have a violation.

Same play with A2 catching the ball airborne, having jump from the IB area, and landing OOB. Violation.

Adam · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 02:17pm

Junker,
Let me ask you this. In your play, if A2 had caught the ball IB and proceeded to dribble up the court, would you have called her for a violation for failing to properly inbound the ball?

thumpferee · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 02:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rwest
Team B inbounding the ball after a made basket. B1 has the ball in his hands and passes to B2 who is on the court running toward the endline. He catches the ball and goes out of bounds to inbound the ball. This is a set play that I've seen before. Is this a violation? If not, why? It seems to me that is should be. Would it be a violation if it was a spot throw-in?

I don't see this as a throw in violation. If it were the arrow would need to be reversed. This is just a case where there was a legal throw in and then carried OOB. Award other team the ball at spot where ball went OOB.

Now if B2 was standing OOB and B1 passed the ball to B2 after a made basket, that would be perfectly legal.

Now reading down the thread, B2 last established position inbounds. So while B2 was in the air, then caught the ball and went OOB, there is still no violation. The ball was legally thrown in but then carried OOB.

A player shall not violate the following provisions etc..

A thrower in shall not
9.2.2 Fail to pass the ball directly into the court from OOB so it touches or is touched by another player on the court before going OOB untouched.

[Edited by thumpferee on Jan 19th, 2005 at 02:39 PM]

SamIAm · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 02:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee

Quote:

Originally posted by rwest
Team B inbounding the ball after a made basket. B1 has the ball in his hands and passes to B2 who is on the court running toward the endline. He catches the ball and goes out of bounds to inbound the ball. This is a set play that I've seen before. Is this a violation? If not, why? It seems to me that is should be. Would it be a violation if it was a spot throw-in?

I don't see this as a throw in violation. If it were the arrow would need to be reversed. This is just a case where there was a legal throw in and then carried OOB. Award other team the ball at spot where ball went OOB.

Now if B2 was standing OOB and B1 passed the ball to B2 after a made basket, that would be perfectly legal.

Now reading down the thread, B2 last established position inbounds. So while B2 was in the air, then caught the ball and went OOB, there is still no violation. The ball was legally thrown in but then carried OOB.

A player shall not violate the following provisions etc..

A thrower in shall not
9.2.2 Fail to pass the ball directly into the court from OOB so it touches or is touched by another player on the court before going OOB untouched.

[Edited by thumpferee on Jan 19th, 2005 at 02:39 PM]

The arrow should not be changed. The arrow should not even be discussed in this play. This play has no effect on the AP arrow.

Adam · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 02:54pm

It's a violation. Not a throw-in violation, but an OOB violation.

Grail · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 03:07pm

Simple. A1 is out of bounds, passes to A2 with inbounds status. A2 goes out of bounds. Violation. Ball to B.

A1 is not out of bounds, passes to A2 who carries the ball OOB and than initiates the inbound. No problem. A1 never began the throw in.

A1 is OOB, passes to A2 who is already OOB. No problem.

thumpferee · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 03:07pm

AHHHHHHHH!

Thought rwest was referring to throw in violations.

[Edited by thumpferee on Jan 19th, 2005 at 03:10 PM]

Junker · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 03:09pm

Okay, here's the explaination of what I had and did last night. A makes a basket. B1 grabs the ball and heads out of bounds. B2 then runs OOB and B1 tosses the ball to him. By their body language and the way they are moving (how's that for by the book terminology) I could tell that what they were trying to do is get the correct person for their press break inbounding the ball. Since I had yet to begin my 5 second count, I did not call this a violation. Had I begun counting, I would have called a violation. Had B2 caught the ball and dribbled up the court, I also would not have called a violation. Sorry there's no rulesbook quotes in here, but they're in the bag and Wednesday's my day off from games.

Adam · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
Okay, here's the explaination of what I had and did last night. A makes a basket. B1 grabs the ball and heads out of bounds. B2 then runs OOB and B1 tosses the ball to him. By their body language and the way they are moving (how's that for by the book terminology) I could tell that what they were trying to do is get the correct person for their press break inbounding the ball. Since I had yet to begin my 5 second count, I did not call this a violation. Had I begun counting, I would have called a violation. Had B2 caught the ball and dribbled up the court, I also would not have called a violation. Sorry there's no rulesbook quotes in here, but they're in the bag and Wednesday's my day off from games.

Yours, too?

tjones1 · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 03:21pm

For rwest's post. If B2 catches the ball inbounds and then goes OOB, it's Team A's ball where ever he/she went OOB at. If B2 catches the ball in the air, he/she has in bounds status and when he/she goes OOB, it's Team A's ball.

WyMike · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 03:28pm

Isn't this similar to a backcourt violation? When player B is airborne he retains the status of where he left the floor from?