First horn white!

[Berkut]

Why do we do this?

There is this incredibly loud horn, then we stand there and state the freaking obvious...that yes, that loud horn was in fact the first horn, so maybe pretty please could you break your huddle and come out and play basketball now?

Seriously - I feel like an idiot every time I do that. They know it was the first horn, so why do I have to tell them? They know that 15 seconds later there will be a second horn as well. If they cannot hear the very loud buzzing noise, then certainly they cannot hear me telling them there was just a very loud buzzing noise, right?

Of course, they aren't going to break their huddle until that second horn anyway, so why bother?

The answer: because someone thinks that we should get the game going faster, and rather than just having the balls to do what is necessary to accomplish that, we are going to *pretend* to do something about it, rather than *actually* do something about it.

If we really want the clock to start at that second horn, then we should be instructed to not tell them anything they already know, and simply place the ball in play after the second horn. Problem solved, if we did this every time.

Alternatively, if it isn't that important, then we should continue to tolerate the huddle breaking some number of seconds after the second horn, and the ball being put into play some number of seconds later.

In either case, I don't see the point in us standing there telling them something they already know.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Of course, they aren't going to break their huddle until that second horn anyway, so why bother?

If done correctly, it works well. Around here, they always break between the first and second horn.

[JugglingReferee]

The NHL said that they wanted faceoffs to happen quicker than they were. Players were skating around in circles, or not coming into the faceoff circle until they and their teammates were ready. The NHL said "enough of this crap" and created the rule that the faceoff will happen fifteen seconds after the whistle that stopped the play.

I loved the looks on players' faces when the puck was dropped and one team easily obtained possession. It was like poetry to me.

I wish Fed would do the same. Fifteen seconds after the first, the ball is put into play: whether it's to the offensive team with the defense still in the huddle, or the D ready and the O running to a ball already on the ground.

I have adopted a bit of the NHL style when I administer a throw-in.

I've seen some guys get milked like they have 6 utters.

[shishstripes]

I personally don't feel like an idiot doing it and sometimes for whatever reason other than maybe just wrapped up in trying to relay information to the team, coaches don't always hear the horn.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

I personally don't feel like an idiot doing it and sometimes for whatever reason other than maybe just wrapped up in trying to relay information to the team, coaches don't always hear the horn.

So they don't hear that horn, but they can hear you?

I don't buy it - they are ignoring the horn, because they know they will get away with it.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Why do we do this?

There is this incredibly loud horn, then we stand there and state the freaking obvious...that yes, that loud horn was in fact the first horn, so maybe pretty please could you break your huddle and come out and play basketball now?

Seriously - I feel like an idiot every time I do that. They know it was the first horn, so why do I have to tell them? They know that 15 seconds later there will be a second horn as well. If they cannot hear the very loud buzzing noise, then certainly they cannot hear me telling them there was just a very loud buzzing noise, right?

Of course, they aren't going to break their huddle until that second horn anyway, so why bother?

The answer: because someone thinks that we should get the game going faster, and rather than just having the balls to do what is necessary to accomplish that, we are going to *pretend* to do something about it, rather than *actually* do something about it.

If we really want the clock to start at that second horn, then we should be instructed to not tell them anything they already know, and simply place the ball in play after the second horn. Problem solved, if we did this every time.

Alternatively, if it isn't that important, then we should continue to tolerate the huddle breaking some number of seconds after the second horn, and the ball being put into play some number of seconds later.

In either case, I don't see the point in us standing there telling them something they already know.

Really? If they haven't broke the huddle by the second horn, the ball does go on the floor or to their opponent (within reason). The coaches are told in the pre-game captains meeting to get everyone onto the floor after the first horn because we will start on the second horn. After a time or two of the ball being made live after the second horn, they learn to break the huddle.

I don't like extended timeouts so we get them going immediately

-Josh

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Really? If they haven't broke the huddle by the second horn, the ball does go on the floor or to their opponent (within reason). The coaches are told in the pre-game captains meeting to get everyone onto the floor after the first horn because we will start on the second horn. After a time or two of the ball being made live after the second horn, they learn to break the huddle.

I don't like extended timeouts so we get them going immediately

-Josh

See, this is the key, and is pretty much my point.

If you do that, you don't need to stand there telling them that the really loud noise they just heard was the first horn.

If you are not willing to put the ball into play (and around here we are not) when the second horn sounds, then there isn't any point in going on about it being the first horn.

Either case, announcing the horn is silly.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Berkut

See, this is the key, and is pretty much my point.

If you do that, you don't need to stand there telling them that the really loud noise they just heard was the first horn.

If you are not willing to put the ball into play (and around here we are not) when the second horn sounds, then there isn't any point in going on about it being the first horn.

Either case, announcing the horn is silly.

You are not announcing anything. You are there to hurry them up if need be.

Peace

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by Berkut

If you are not willing to put the ball into play (and around here we are not) when the second horn sounds, then there isn't any point in going on about it being the first horn.

Either case, announcing the horn is silly.

It's silly because your area doesn't enforce this rule. I agree...why have horns at all? Coaches and teams will let you know when they are ready to play...

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Berkut

See, this is the key, and is pretty much my point.

If you do that, you don't need to stand there telling them that the really loud noise they just heard was the first horn.

If you are not willing to put the ball into play (and around here we are not) when the second horn sounds, then there isn't any point in going on about it being the first horn.

Either case, announcing the horn is silly.

So 30 second timeouts are really 30-60 seconds long? 60 second timeouts are really 60-180 seconds? hmm...Enforce the rules, resumption of play procedure (4-38, 7-5-1, etc)...Sounds like you have the authority to get the game going, use it!

Heck, I even use ROP procedures in non-high school games. Get it moving!

-Josh

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by jdmara

So 30 second timeouts are really 30-60 seconds long? 60 second timeouts are really 60-180 seconds? hmm...Enforce the rules, resumption of play procedure (4-38, 7-5-1, etc)...Sounds like you have the authority to get the game going, use it!

-Josh

Of course not - 30 second timeout are sometimes 40 seconds though, by the time everyone breaks the huddle at 30 and gets into position. 60 seconds are sometimes 70.

I *could* take it upon myself to place the ball on the floor at 30 and 60 exactly - but I would be the only one in the area doing so, and would likely result in not having any games rather quickly.

I agree that there is an easy solution to this - but my point is that the solution has nothing to do with announcing horns, which basically amounts to begging them to do what they should be doing anyway.

Around here, the prevailing attitude is that the teams ahve until the final horn to huddle - then they are expected to come out and play - NOT that they are expected to be ready to play at the second horn. Shrug.

I don't really mind, to be honest - a few seconds is no big deal to me, if that is how they want it enforced. I just find the announcing of the horn bit ridiculous. It accomplishes nothing.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by pizanno

It's silly because your area doesn't enforce this rule. I agree...why have horns at all? Coaches and teams will let you know when they are ready to play...

It is silly whether you enforce the rule or not though.

If you do not, it doesn't matter, and if you do, it isn't necessary.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Berkut

It is silly whether you enforce the rule or not though.

If you do not, it doesn't matter, and if you do, it isn't necessary.

Then do not do it. I do not think anyone here cares (I almost forgot) what you do.

Peace

[mick]

I can remember huddles when the horn was not heard.
First horn is, for me, the best time to use the Assistant Coach.
I let him know and I leave.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Why do we do this?

There is this incredibly loud horn, then we stand there and state the freaking obvious...that yes, that loud horn was in fact the first horn, so maybe pretty please could you break your huddle and come out and play basketball now?

Seriously - I feel like an idiot every time I do that. They know it was the first horn, so why do I have to tell them? They know that 15 seconds later there will be a second horn as well. If they cannot hear the very loud buzzing noise, then certainly they cannot hear me telling them there was just a very loud buzzing noise, right?

Of course, they aren't going to break their huddle until that second horn anyway, so why bother?

The answer: because someone thinks that we should get the game going faster, and rather than just having the balls to do what is necessary to accomplish that, we are going to *pretend* to do something about it, rather than *actually* do something about it.

If we really want the clock to start at that second horn, then we should be instructed to not tell them anything they already know, and simply place the ball in play after the second horn. Problem solved, if we did this every time.

Alternatively, if it isn't that important, then we should continue to tolerate the huddle breaking some number of seconds after the second horn, and the ball being put into play some number of seconds later.

In either case, I don't see the point in us standing there telling them something they already know.

First of all, some officials are quick to get the clock started on a time out -- getting the clock started well before the players are even close to being in the bench area. Solution: Wait until the teams are near the bench area (determine the type of time out during this interval), report the time out and have the timer start the clock. This allows a 30 second time-out to be close to 30 seconds (actually, effectively about 22 - 24 seconds). I have never understood (other than greed and selfishness) why an official is in such a hurry to shorten an already-short event even further.

As JRut pointed out, the purpose of the communication is to get the "still-huddled" team ready for play by the 2nd horn. I will give the teams a quick instruction as well (whose ball, run of baseline, direction of throw-in, etc. along with number of time outs left if 2 or less). These instructions are much more useful for the sub-varsity games, but there are times when a sub has entered the game during the time out and knowing where the ball is to be put in play is helpful -- and gets the teams to the right spot quicker.

We really do not have a problem with delays after the second horn. I have virtually never had to place the ball on the ground -- I HATE that mechanic. We try to use the first horn as the indication that play will begin shortly. I expect to resume about 5 seconds or so after the second horn -- and usually, we do.

But, even if one of the teams takes an extra 10 seconds getting out of EVERY HUDDLE for EVERY TIME OUT we have added less than TWO MINUTES to the overall length of a game (assuming each team takes their full complement of 5 time outs). Not that it has ever happened, but if it had, Berkut, are you willing to get your underwear in a bunch over TWO MINUTES???

The mechanic is in place to keep the game moving at a reasonable pace AND to signify the end of legal subs before the ball is put in play. It is not to prove that you heard the horn.

Relax. Enjoy the game. Life is too short to be worrying about a couple seconds here and a couple seconds there. Heck, you probably wasted that much time just reading this post. Use Reading Resumption Procedures and get to the next post, quickly.