First horn white!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

First of all, some officials are quick to get the clock started on a time out -- getting the clock started well before the players are even close to being in the bench area. Solution: Wait until the teams are near the bench area (determine the type of time out during this interval), report the time out and have the timer start the clock. This allows a 30 second time-out to be close to 30 seconds (actually, effectively about 22 - 24 seconds). I have never understood (other than greed and selfishness) why an official is in such a hurry to shorten an already-short event even further.

As JRut pointed out, the purpose of the communication is to get the "still-huddled" team ready for play by the 2nd horn. I will give the teams a quick instruction as well (whose ball, run of baseline, direction of throw-in, etc. along with number of time outs left if 2 or less). These instructions are much more useful for the sub-varsity games, but there are times when a sub has entered the game during the time out and knowing where the ball is to be put in play is helpful -- and gets the teams to the right spot quicker.

We really do not have a problem with delays after the second horn. I have virtually never had to place the ball on the ground -- I HATE that mechanic. We try to use the first horn as the indication that play will begin shortly. I expect to resume about 5 seconds or so after the second horn -- and usually, we do.

But, even if one of the teams takes an extra 10 seconds getting out of EVERY HUDDLE for EVERY TIME OUT we have added less than TWO MINUTES to the overall length of a game (assuming each team takes their full complement of 5 time outs). Not that it has ever happened, but if it had, Berkut, are you willing to get your underwear in a bunch over TWO MINUTES???

The mechanic is in place to keep the game moving at a reasonable pace AND to signify the end of legal subs before the ball is put in play. It is not to prove that you heard the horn.

Relax. Enjoy the game. Life is too short to be worrying about a couple seconds here and a couple seconds there. Heck, you probably wasted that much time just reading this post. Use Reading Resumption Procedures and get to the next post, quickly.

Another solution is this: If teams are slow to come out, then start the clock earlier. It accomplishes the same thing. I wait until the teams are comfortably in their huddle before starting the clock, but if they delay, I'll start it a bit quicker the next time.

I am loathe to put the ball down, but I'll do it if it gets out of hand. Like berkut's area, most teams break on the second huddle. As long as they are moving towards the inbounds spot, I don't get worked up over it. I mean, most games are over in 65-70 minutes anyway, another couple of seconds isn't going to mean I won't get to the bar after the game.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

First of all, some officials are quick to get the clock started on a time out -- getting the clock started well before the players are even close to being in the bench area. Solution: Wait until the teams are near the bench area (determine the type of time out during this interval), report the time out and have the timer start the clock. This allows a 30 second time-out to be close to 30 seconds (actually, effectively about 22 - 24 seconds). I have never understood (other than greed and selfishness) why an official is in such a hurry to shorten an already-short event even further.

As JRut pointed out, the purpose of the communication is to get the "still-huddled" team ready for play by the 2nd horn. I will give the teams a quick instruction as well (whose ball, run of baseline, direction of throw-in, etc. along with number of time outs left if 2 or less). These instructions are much more useful for the sub-varsity games, but there are times when a sub has entered the game during the time out and knowing where the ball is to be put in play is helpful -- and gets the teams to the right spot quicker.

We really do not have a problem with delays after the second horn. I have virtually never had to place the ball on the ground -- I HATE that mechanic. We try to use the first horn as the indication that play will begin shortly. I expect to resume about 5 seconds or so after the second horn -- and usually, we do.

But, even if one of the teams takes an extra 10 seconds getting out of EVERY HUDDLE for EVERY TIME OUT we have added less than TWO MINUTES to the overall length of a game (assuming each team takes their full complement of 5 time outs). Not that it has ever happened, but if it had, Berkut, are you willing to get your underwear in a bunch over TWO MINUTES???

The mechanic is in place to keep the game moving at a reasonable pace AND to signify the end of legal subs before the ball is put in play. It is not to prove that you heard the horn.

Relax. Enjoy the game. Life is too short to be worrying about a couple seconds here and a couple seconds there. Heck, you probably wasted that much time just reading this post. Use Reading Resumption Procedures and get to the next post, quickly.

I don't think you understand what I am saying.

I don't really care if we take a few extra seconds every time out. That is fine with me, as long as it is fine with my assignors.

My point, however, is that the mechanic where the official announces to everyone that the loud noise was the first horn is, IMO, rather silly, and a poor way to indicate...well, anything that wasn't just indicated by that rather loud noise you just heard.

I am not worried about the time - although I think some people are, since we seem to talk about it in meetings pretty much every year. I think the "First horn!" mechanic is a token effort to somehow address this, without actually addressing it.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

First of all, some officials are quick to get the clock started on a time out -- getting the clock started well before the players are even close to being in the bench area. Solution: Wait until the teams are near the bench area (determine the type of time out during this interval), report the time out and have the timer start the clock. This allows a 30 second time-out to be close to 30 seconds (actually, effectively about 22 - 24 seconds). I have never understood (other than greed and selfishness) why an official is in such a hurry to shorten an already-short event even further.

This I agree with though - it is a 30 or 60 second timeout, to start when BOTH teams are at their bench. That is what we are taught, and that is what I do.

"Full time out, white, [coach or player#]"
[wait until both teams are at their bench]
"Run it"

Never been sure what the hurry was...and why piss someone off because they think they got jobbed on something as silly as a few seconds of timeout?

[deecee]

I dont understand why we argue points that will maybe prolong the game by 1-2minutes or have you take 2 extra steps to get things going. Just put the effort in and stop whining about it. IF you dont want to do it then dont. Its your choice what you do, just stop crying about the little details that just help you be proactive rather than reactive.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by deecee

I dont understand why we argue points that will maybe prolong the game by 1-2minutes or have you take 2 extra steps to get things going. Just put the effort in and stop whining about it. IF you dont want to do it then dont. Its your choice what you do, just stop crying about the little details that just help you be proactive rather than reactive.

My goodness. Whininig and crying? If you really hate talking about other views so much, would you not be better off just ignoring a post like this, rather than getting personal and unpleasant with others?

Ahhh, the wonders of the anonymous internet, and the safety of being unpleasant to strangers.

Does announcing that the loud noise was a horn make me proactive rather than reactive? How so? I would love to know your views on this, if you can communicate them without the nasty little comments.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Berkut

My goodness. Whininig and crying? If you really hate talking about other views so much, would you not be better off just ignoring a post like this, rather than getting personal and unpleasant with others?

Ahhh, the wonders of the anonymous internet, and the safety of being unpleasant to strangers.

Does announcing that the loud noise was a horn make me proactive rather than reactive? How so? I would love to know your views on this, if you can communicate them without the nasty little comments.

Berkut,
From my previous post.....As JRut pointed out, the purpose of the communication is to get the "still-huddled" team ready for play by the 2nd horn. I will give the teams a quick instruction as well (whose ball, run of baseline, direction of throw-in, etc. along with number of time outs left if 2 or less). These instructions are much more useful for the sub-varsity games, but there are times when a sub has entered the game during the time out and knowing where the ball is to be put in play is helpful -- and gets the teams to the right spot quicker.

I don't simply use the first horn to say first horn white. I use it when the team is still in its huddle. I also communicate this additional information.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Berkut

My goodness. Whininig and crying? If you really hate talking about other views so much, would you not be better off just ignoring a post like this, rather than getting personal and unpleasant with others?

Ahhh, the wonders of the anonymous internet, and the safety of being unpleasant to strangers.

Does announcing that the loud noise was a horn make me proactive rather than reactive? How so? I would love to know your views on this, if you can communicate them without the nasty little comments.

BTW, this is my real name and real identity and I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. And I do not think I have said a single thing that was nasty or out of line. If you do not want to do this, do not do it. And as I said before, I do not think anyone here really cares what you do. You asked a question and you got an answer. Life will go on.

Peace

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Berkut

My goodness. Whininig and crying? If you really hate talking about other views so much, would you not be better off just ignoring a post like this, rather than getting personal and unpleasant with others?

Ahhh, the wonders of the anonymous internet, and the safety of being unpleasant to strangers.

Does announcing that the loud noise was a horn make me proactive rather than reactive? How so? I would love to know your views on this, if you can communicate them without the nasty little comments.

No where did i get personal. I am asking a question as to whats the purpose of this? A lot of things we do in officiating IS NOT REQUIRED or necessary its a courtesy. Going back and forth rehashing a point does not change it. IF you dont want to do it then dont. Read what JRUT said. Thats my point.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Berkut,
From my previous post.....As JRut pointed out, the purpose of the communication is to get the "still-huddled" team ready for play by the 2nd horn. I will give the teams a quick instruction as well (whose ball, run of baseline, direction of throw-in, etc. along with number of time outs left if 2 or less). These instructions are much more useful for the sub-varsity games, but there are times when a sub has entered the game during the time out and knowing where the ball is to be put in play is helpful -- and gets the teams to the right spot quicker.

I don't simply use the first horn to say first horn white. I use it when the team is still in its huddle. I also communicate this additional information.

I can certainly see the use of these kinds of instructions - although do you actually say this while the team is still in the huddle? I would worry that I was intruding or talking over the coach. I think I've made those kinds of instructions if they are warranted as the teams are out of the huddle, whose ball it is, where, etc., etc.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

BTW, this is my real name and real identity and I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. And I do not think I have said a single thing that was nasty or out of line. If you do not want to do this, do not do it. And as I said before, I do not think anyone here really cares what you do. You asked a question and you got an answer. Life will go on.

Peace

Fair enough - I likely am making a mountain out of it - I guess I was under the impression that the "First horn!" bit was an actual, required mechanic. That may have been an incorrect assumption, have to go check my manual.

And no, I don't think you have said anything that was nasty or out of line - I was not responding to you, but to decee, who for some odd reason had to get personal about it.

And yeah, life does have that way of going on...but isn't it more fun when you can ***** about the little things, even if they don't really matter all that much?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Fair enough - I likely am making a mountain out of it - I guess I was under the impression that the "First horn!" bit was an actual, required mechanic. That may have been an incorrect assumption, have to go check my manual.

It is a required mechanic as far as I know. But just like anything, if you do not like it, do not do it. You might have to suffer some consequences, but all mechanics are not do or die. In my state they want us to stay with the huddle until they break up. It matters little to me either way. I do what is expected and I personally or I expect to suffer the consequences of my actions.

Originally Posted by Berkut

And no, I don't think you have said anything that was nasty or out of line - I was not responding to you, but to decee, who for some odd reason had to get personal about it.

And yeah, life does have that way of going on...but isn't it more fun when you can ***** about the little things, even if they don't really matter all that much?

I did not get anything he said as personal. Then again I do think sometimes it is hard to convey feelings or attitude on a computer screen.

Peace