First Horn

DJ · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 09, 2004, 02:27pm

First horn goes off for a time out. Coach sends his substitute to check in. Bonus, two or three shot free to be attempted. Can he come in after the first attempt? I don't have my rule book handy so am taking the easy way out. What has to happen before he may come in?

ChuckElias · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 09, 2004, 02:31pm

Sub can't come in at the end of the TO, b/c he didn't report in time. So he has to wait until the next opportunity, which will be before the final FT. No need to wait for the clock to start.

DJ · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 09, 2004, 03:17pm

If he can come in it would be following the first for a one shot attempt that is made, the first for a bonus or two shot free throw that is made or missed or following the second for a three shot free throw that is made or missed. Is this what you mean by the final free throw? He could also come in as a result of a free throw violation by the the shooting team which would be the next dead ball opportunity? So we need a live ball before a substitution can be made after the first horn?

SteveF · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 09, 2004, 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
If he can come in it would be following the first for a one shot attempt that is made, the first for a bonus or two shot free throw that is made or missed or following the second for a three shot free throw that is made or missed. Is this what you mean by the final free throw? He could also come in as a result of a free throw violation by the the shooting team which would be the next dead ball opportunity? So we need a live ball before a substitution can be made after the first horn?

Well he can not come in after the first for a bonus shot free throw that is missed because the ball would remain live. Unless of course they have 10 team fouls and are in double bonus.

ChuckElias · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 09, 2004, 04:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
Is this what you mean by the final free throw?

He simply needs to wait until the next opportunity to sub. Usually this is before the final shot of whatever FT sequence is being shot.

If the TO is before a 2-shot penalty, then the sub must wait until after the first shot. If the TO is before a 3-shot penalty, the sub must wait until after the second shot. If the TO is before a 1-and-1, the sub must wait until after the first shot is made. If it's missed, obviously he has to continue to wait until there is a whistle.

Quote:

So we need a live ball before a substitution can be made after the first horn?

Not necessarily. The next opportunity to sub is usually before the final FT of the penalty, but not always. The coach might take another TO before the FTs are shot. In that case, the next opportunity to sub would be at the end of that TO. Since the sub has already reported, he can enter the game at the end of the TO.

DJ · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 09, 2004, 04:43pm

Interesting never thought of that and can you think that quick on the run? Thanks for your discussion.

DJ · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 09, 2004, 04:46pm

Also think you mean before the first horn of the second time out and not the end of the time out!! Thanks again!!

ChuckElias · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 09, 2004, 04:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
Interesting never thought of that and can you think that quick on the run?

Nope, DJ. That's why it's good to go over these things ahead of time. Unless I'd already had this conversation a few times, I wouldn't be so sure when it happens in a game.

Quote:

Also think you mean before the first horn of the second time out and not the end of the time out!!

You're gonna have to tell me what you're refering to here. Sorry, but I just didn't follow what you were trying to ask.