Horn Goes Off

SCBroncos · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 06, 2001, 03:27pm

This play happened in CA this past weekend during a semi-final sectional playoff game. I was not there, but this is what I heard happened.

Score tied with less than 1:30 left in the game. A1 (visiting team) is fouled and team A is in the bonus, so he goes to the line to shoot 1-1.

Player gets the ball from the official. While holding the ball, the horn inadvertantly (they claim faulty wiring - yeah, right) goes off. Officials do NOT step in and blow the try dead, player then waits a second and attempts the FT. The shot goes in. Well after the shot enters the basket, one of the officials blows the whistle, and cancels the made FT due to the horn going off and orders the shooter to shoot again at the front end of the 1-1.

Needless to say, the player misses, Team B rebounds and gets fouled, makes both free throws and wins the game by 3. Team A protested, but to no avail as there was not enough time to hear the case before the next game on the following day.

If it was me, I would have blown my whistle before the attempt and started over the try. If for some reason I didn't stop the play in time and the shooter makes it, I think I would let it go. If he misses however, and I think that he was distracted by the horn, I might have him start over. Any thoughts?

*Note* I worked a game the next day, and this exact thing happened. I was talking to my partner about this situation before the game, so we were well prepared and stepped in before the shot was even attempted.

mick · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 06, 2001, 03:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SCBroncos

If it was me, I would have blown my whistle before the attempt and started over the try. If for some reason I didn't stop the play in time and the shooter makes it, I think I would let it go. If he misses however, and I think that he was distracted by the horn, I might have him start over. Any thoughts?

*Note* I worked a game the next day, and this exact thing happened. I was talking to my partner about this situation before the game, so we were well prepared and stepped in before the shot was even attempted.

SC,
I think you covered it well.
mick

Mark Dexter · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 06, 2001, 04:15pm

The horn sounding does not cause the ball to become dead. Therefore, if the official ignores it at first (might have been correct, depends on the exact circumstances), the FT attempt counts.

AK ref SE · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 06, 2001, 06:18pm

I wonder why the horn never malfunctioned on the home team

Mark Dexter · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 06, 2001, 07:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
I wonder why the horn never malfunctioned on the home team

Because the home timer "accidentally" slipped his finger and hit the horn.

Oops, did I leave those pesky quotation marks in there to show my sarcasm?

CoachB · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 11:20am

I would think that this is similar to a lane violation. The freethrow is good but another shot is awarded in case of a miss. If the official whistled the play dead, I would not be half as upset as if he didn't blow the whistle and now in hindsight is trying to make up a ruling.

number 26 · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 12:26pm

is this a reference to the now moderately infamous d4 boys high school game of last fri night at contra costa college? if so, i'd be happy to provide an objective eye witness account.

mick · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by number 26
is this a reference to the now moderately infamous d4 boys high school game of last fri night at contra costa college? if so, i'd be happy to provide an objective eye witness account.

C-mon #26,
Tell us regardless.
mick

number 26 · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 02:28pm

ok, now that i know you don't care. team a at free throw line. down 2. 10-15 seconds left. makes first. down one. second free throw about to be attempted. shooter has ball. not yet into his shooting motion. horn sounds. my eyes follow ref as he walks to scorers table. cheers from team a fans. apparently, team a shooter shot, and made the second free throw. a mini-commotion as you can imagine, with team a's coach and referees at the scorer's table. free throw ultimately disallowed...
i don't know if whistle was blown by ref(s) at the sound of the horn. team a coach feels this is key. if the rule is play continues as is until a whistle, he has a valid point.
imho, coach instructed player to shoot free throw as ref was approaching table, as the first half of a win/win. and he deserves credit for assessing the situation instantly. had he missed, team a could claim attempt should not count.
how about if he missed, team b rebounds, team a not thinking play is live, watches team b go length of court for uncontested dunk...
as a team a fan, don't feel they were victimized by a bad call. horns happen.

Richard Ogg · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 03:36pm

I believe the coach of team A is a former referee....

mick · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 03:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by number 26
ok, now that i know you don't care. team a at free throw line. down 2. 10-15 seconds left. makes first. down one. second free throw about to be attempted. shooter has ball. not yet into his shooting motion. horn sounds. my eyes follow ref as he walks to scorers table. cheers from team a fans. apparently, team a shooter shot, and made the second free throw. a mini-commotion as you can imagine, with team a's coach and referees at the scorer's table. free throw ultimately disallowed...
i don't know if whistle was blown by ref(s) at the sound of the horn. team a coach feels this is key. if the rule is play continues as is until a whistle, he has a valid point.
imho, coach instructed player to shoot free throw as ref was approaching table, as the first half of a win/win. and he deserves credit for assessing the situation instantly. had he missed, team a could claim attempt should not count.
how about if he missed, team b rebounds, team a not thinking play is live, watches team b go length of court for uncontested dunk...
as a team a fan, don't feel they were victimized by a bad call. horns happen.

Thanks #26,
If the official wanted time to stop (which he apparently did want, or he wouldn't have turned his back on the play), he should have blown that whistle, as you implied and had gotten the ball outa the shooter's hands.
Once he screwed up that part, he was basically on his own, without the rule book to clearly back him, and whatever he chose was gonna be bad for one side or the other.
Now, he did have some other official(s) with him. I wonder what they were doing, ... just enjoying the break in action?

I don't know if you are an official, a coach, a fan or all of the above, but when we officials have those mind snaps, the result is going to hurt more than thrown bottles.

mick

Dan_ref · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 04:03pm

...I wonder what they were doing, ... just enjoying the break in action?

Hey, why not? Whenever I get a chance (like when a partner
decides to stroll over to the table side for a chat) I
just spit out my whistle, fold up my arms & stand there,
maybe even inspect the scoreboard for bulbs that need
to be replaced.

I don't know if you are an official, a coach, a fan or all of the above, but when we officials have those mind snaps, the result is going to hurt more than thrown bottles.

mick

There's a moral in there somewhere...

SCBroncos · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 04:07pm

To answer #26's question, this is in reference to the Cardinal Newman @ Salesian NCS D4 game from last friday.

Based on your assessment of the whistle not being blown by any official, I think the coach of CN has a pretty good case.

number 26 · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2001, 04:20pm

well. how about. let's assume for the purpose of discussion here:
a. whistle did not blow until after made free throw.
b. there was not a time constraint (playoff game next night).
question.
anyone know of a successful protest resulting in a "do-over" (hello tanya) in a case like this?

Mark Dexter · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 08, 2001, 05:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by number 26
well. how about. let's assume for the purpose of discussion here:
a. whistle did not blow until after made free throw.
b. there was not a time constraint (playoff game next night).
question.
anyone know of a successful protest resulting in a "do-over" (hello tanya) in a case like this?

In basketball games, there are no protests (unlike baseball, where (I don't completely understand it) a game can be played 'under protest'.)

However, because this is a tournament, there might be a form of protest available. The only times I have seen protests allowed is for an obvious rule misinterpretation (not a judgement call - i.e. he called OOB on white when it was on blue, and blue won the game). By now, it is probably too late to do anything.