'T' not warranted???

[that's a walk]

I'll make this short. I was not a witness to this but a good friend was part of the 3 man crew and he shared with me.

Freshman game, 1st game of a triple header, and the 'Home' boys go to the lockerroom for a last minute chat before the opening tip. After the boys left a few 'Home' JV boys go out onto the floor and do a little shooting. One guy decides to dunk the ball. Here is where it gets interesting. One official puts air to his whistle and reports a 'T' will be issued to the home team. Now when the freshman come back out the coach is informed that he has received a 'T' and that he has lost his box. The game begins with 2 freethrows and the ball is awarded to the Visitors. Home team gets the arrow. Coach is irate all game and then asks the referee who issued the 'T' if the number in the book is correct because he is going to report him to the MHSAA. Has this ever occurred before? I was looking thru the books and came up empty. I have a game with this official next week. I want to make sure we are on the same page.

[Spence]

No rulebook in front of me but I think the T was a mistake. Its limited to players in the game. The JV boy was not in the scorebook (I assume) so he does not fall under the "no dunking" rule.

[Adam]

There's mixed feelings on this, IMS. Players should know better, and if they're on the court during intermission or pregame, you can make an argument that they can be T'd. I just tell them to knock it off.

[deecee]

Honestly, I think calls like this will seriously curttail your career development as an official.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Honestly, I think calls like this will seriously curttail your career development as an official.

Maybe where you are, and maybe where I am. I just don't think you can make this blanket statement about every area.

We had GM come ask us during a game last week if it was a T if the varsity guys were dunking during half-time of the JV game. We told her to tell them to cut it out before we got out there. I walked up to one of the varsity guys when we got out there and told him to tell his teammates not to dunk or they'd risk a T for the JV team.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by that's a walk

I'll make this short. I was not a witness to this but a good friend was part of the 3 man crew and he shared with me.

Freshman game, 1st game of a triple header, and the 'Home' boys go to the lockerroom for a last minute chat before the opening tip. After the boys left a few 'Home' JV boys go out onto the floor and do a little shooting. One guy decides to dunk the ball. Here is where it gets interesting. One official puts air to his whistle and reports a 'T' will be issued to the home team. Now when the freshman come back out the coach is informed that he has received a 'T' and that he has lost his box. The game begins with 2 freethrows and the ball is awarded to the Visitors. Home team gets the arrow. Coach is irate all game and then asks the referee who issued the 'T' if the number in the book is correct because he is going to report him to the MHSAA. Has this ever occurred before? I was looking thru the books and came up empty. I have a game with this official next week. I want to make sure we are on the same page.

... er, uh, which player again??

[jdmara]

Could an official call a technical for a situation like this? Umm...Yeah, I'm sure you could find a way. Should an official call a technical for a situation like this? Probably not. Get game management to clear the non-participants off the floor.

-Josh

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by that's a walk

I'll make this short. I was not a witness to this but a good friend was part of the 3 man crew and he shared with me.

Freshman game, 1st game of a triple header, and the 'Home' boys go to the lockerroom for a last minute chat before the opening tip. After the boys left a few 'Home' JV boys go out onto the floor and do a little shooting. One guy decides to dunk the ball. Here is where it gets interesting. One official puts air to his whistle and reports a 'T' will be issued to the home team. Now when the freshman come back out the coach is informed that he has received a 'T' and that he has lost his box. The game begins with 2 freethrows and the ball is awarded to the Visitors. Home team gets the arrow. Coach is irate all game and then asks the referee who issued the 'T' if the number in the book is correct because he is going to report him to the MHSAA. Has this ever occurred before? I was looking thru the books and came up empty. I have a game with this official next week. I want to make sure we are on the same page.

The officials have jurisdiction, now that they are on the floor. Do not allow anyone to warm-up but the teams who are about to start the game.

[Y2Koach]

Maybe JV players were also members of the pep squad, and they were doing a pre-game/half-time exhibition that included dunking a la the Phoenix Suns Gorilla?

[mbyron]

I had this situation a couple weeks ago. I just told them: "hey, stay off the rim." They said, "yes, sir."

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The officials have jurisdiction, now that they are on the floor. Do not allow anyone to warm-up but the teams who are about to start the game.

I have seen this type of thing more this season than in the past. Generally, I have seen it during halftime of the JV game while both teams and the officials are in the locker room for half time. I know that a Southern Ohio official indicated that this is a common practice.

The rules indicate that a technical foul is to be called if a PLAYER dunks the ball. As Referee99 indicated, since the varsity player is NOT a PLAYER in the Freshmen or JV game, a technical foul cannot properly be called by rule.

As was pointed out in a similar thread on a different forum, what happens if a former player comes out of the stands and dunks the ball? Is that a technical foul?

I would suggest ensuring that game management keeps the players off the floor IF you don't want a non-player dunking the ball while you are on the floor or not on the floor. I suggest you call a technical foul when a PLAYER (a person with a name and number listed in the scorebook) dunks the ball other than during the game.

This situation is not specifically mentioned in the rules book or case book.

[deecee]

I dont understand why anyone cares about this? I usually dont go looking for more crap to add more stink to anything I am involved with.

[williebfree]

Be proactive....
Have GM kick them off before it escalates.

Order them off the court yourself (Give them the "Hairy Eyeball," if they delay their departure.)

I find it very difficult to justify a "T" in this situation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

I dont understand why anyone cares about this? I usually dont go looking for more crap to add more stink to anything I am involved with.

Did you work all the games involving the home team I had last week? You know, the ones where the official didn't care what color prewrap the girls were wearing?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Did you work all the games involving the home team I had last week? You know, the ones where the official didn't care what color prewrap the girls were wearing?

Today I worked a Catholic middle school "junior varsity" (fifth, and sixth, graders) quadruple-header, and we didn't have a single "Fashion Police" issue. Not one. Every single player on all eight teams was 100% legally equipped, undershirts, headbands, and sweatbands. It's been like that all season. These are ten, and eleven, year olds, coached by volunteer coaches, mostly parent/coaches.

Last night I watched a public high school girls varsity game. Two top notch girls varsity programs, with two of our better, more experienced officials. One of the players was wearing a red jersey, with a black, short sleeve, undershirt, underneath the red, sleeveless, jersey, and she played the entire game like that. This is February, for Pete's sake.

The difference: The assigner of the Catholic middle school league told us at the beginning of the season, that if he ever walked into a gym, while we were officiating for him, and if there was an illegal undershirt, sweatband, or headband, that we would not get paid ($30.00) for that game.

Headbands and wristbands must be white, black, beige, or a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey. When wearing headbands and/or wristbands, all players must wear the same color. Pretty easy to understand. If ten year olds can understand them, then everyone should be able to understand them. These "Fashion Police" rules are enforceable, you just have to want to enforce them.