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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 03:22pm
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Well boys......

I am sorry that you feel that Ted V's ego got in the way again last with the Xavier/Texas game, because you were not watching the same game or same highlights that I saw on television, plus you have probably not watched very many big 12 games either during the season.

Barnes was his old and typical self last night whinning about everything and anything to the officials because he was losing. That is vintage Barnes when things do not go his way during a game. Barnes andhis Texas team was beat by a better team, and by a team that wanted the win more then Texas.

Ted V's ego did not get in the way at all last night. Ted did the right thing on both 'T's' he gave to Barnes. Valentine issues the first T. Then he stays table side(because he felt alright with the situation and did not need the option of switching). Next, he politely listens to Barnes and tries to prevent Barnes from getting the second T, but then has no choice but to give the second T because of Barnes choice of language.
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 03:45pm
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No choice? Sure he had a choice.

He could have walked away.

But, the clock was stopped, the camera was on him and TV Teddy NEVER walks away when he can stay on camera.

You think some third grader in Idaho gave him his nickname?

TV Teddy knows when he can become the show and he never misses his chance.
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 03:46pm
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I don't really have any bias against Valentine, but I question whether he made a wise choice staying table-side after calling the first T. You have a favored team that's about to lose, and a coach who's lost it. Absolutely issue the first T - that was made apparent by what I saw on TV. But given the situation, why not bail, go opposite, and let the game play out.

We've all been in situations like this, where we KNOW we would've wound up tossing the coach if we'd stayed in the vicinity after whackin' him.

Valentine's proximity to Barnes after the first T was such that I think if he goes opposite, then whatever he has to say to Valentine, he has to make such an *** of himself that 20,000 people see it too, and then if it's necessary, whack him again.

One of the rare times when I agree with the T.V. announcers - it's not Valentine's job to go toe-to-toe with the coach in that situation. I figure just take the path of least resistence, and get the hell out.

Having said all of this, none of us knows what Barnes said after the first T - maybe he called his wife a nasty name, maybe he used the "n" word, who knows?

Those are my views, but in the end, I guess I'm not gonna second-guess a top NCAA official on this one. In the end, it was Barnes who was being a jerk, and Barnes who had the option of just sucking it up and letting the game end.

(I'll just ignore the TROLL in the previous post, who's probably some idiot Texas fan)
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 03:53pm
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No Texas fan at all and no Barnes fan

either. I'm not even from that part of the country. However, I've had a belly full of TV Teddy for years. Ever see his business card? In the upper corner is a drawing of two hands making the "T" sign with sparks flying away from it.

Now that's his image and he created it.

BTW, what was the spread? It was a three point game when he 'went to to toe' with Barnes. It finished at 8.
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 04:00pm
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Thumbs down Re: No Texas fan at all and no Barnes fan

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
BTW, what was the spread? It was a three point game when he 'went to to toe' with Barnes. It finished at 8.
WTF has the spead got to do with anything? Have some $$$$ riding on the game sis you? I guess that explains it.

You should probably just STFU.
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 04:04pm
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Re: No Texas fan at all and no Barnes fan

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
Ever see his business card? In the upper corner is a drawing of two hands making the "T" sign with sparks flying away from it.

Now that's his image and he created it.


Hmmmmm, I'm starting to wonder about who this guy really is....

And BTW, the spread, not that it matters, was 3 points, X had the ball with miniscule time left on the clock. Game over.
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 04:17pm
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Re: Re: No Texas fan at all and no Barnes fan

Quote:
Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
Ever see his business card? In the upper corner is a drawing of two hands making the "T" sign with sparks flying away from it.

Now that's his image and he created it.


Hmmmmm, I'm starting to wonder about who this guy really is....

And BTW, the spread, not that it matters, was 3 points, X had the ball with miniscule time left on the clock. Game over.

Just another fanboy. Definitely not an official. They just come above ground at this time of year to crap on an official; then they sink outa sight- never to be heard from again.
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 04:40pm
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Keep wondering

but read the University of Michigan study on officials and gambling and you might understand what I am wondering about.

I have never bet a penny on any sporting event in my life.

No, you don't have a clue who I am. Nor I you. But that doesn't matter here. All that matters is the truth.

Stop defending Teddy Valentine. if you guys policed your own, you wouldn't hear the criticism you hear.

By the way, someone here said the official "passed on" three events of conduct by Xavier on the last three possessions.


please tell me someting. Where is the written authority for an official to "pass on" calling a violation of the rules?

I have asked that question for years, but no one seems able to produce the written authority.

There is a very serious reason for asking that question.

This one too - Who gives officials authority to ever call anything other than every single violation of the rules they see?

Do officials' associations have authority to alter the rules of the game? To advise their members not to enforce violations?

Someone here surely knows these answers and has a copy of the written document allowing officials to "pass on" calls. Surely it exists. Officials wouldn't intentionally allow the rules to be violated without sanction would they?

Just show me.
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 05:46pm
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Re: Keep wondering

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy


Stop defending Teddy Valentine. if you guys policed your own, you wouldn't hear the criticism you hear.
Why? We have every right to defend an official when the coach is the one that got himself thrown out. It is not our job to walk away or to accomidate coaches. We can stand anywhere we please and mechanically, it is not required for Valentine to even leave his position. The mechanic was created to give coaches the opportunity to be heard from the calling official. Barnes should have walked away. And he did not, that is why he got tossed.

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
By the way, someone here said the official "passed on" three events of conduct by Xavier on the last three possessions.

please tell me someting. Where is the written authority for an official to "pass on" calling a violation of the rules?
Attend a camp or talk to many officials, you will find out that you do not call "boarderline" calls or plays that are not obvious. That is where the term, "call the obvious" comes from. And it has been written about in many officiating books and Referee Magazine and this site talks about that all the time. And even in the rulebook it talks about applying the "spirit of the rules" and calling things that do put teams at a disadvantage. But if you were an official, you would know that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
I have asked that question for years, but no one seems able to produce the written authority.

There is a very serious reason for asking that question.
Well if you do not have the answer, you need to get out of the house more. You need to buy many publications and subscribe to things that talk about officiating. I officiate 3 sports, and it is very common to talk about not calling things that no one understands or does not jump out at you as an official. And all you have to do is go to a basketball camp for officiating, and that will become very clear from the clinicians and instructors.

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
This one too - Who gives officials authority to ever call anything other than every single violation of the rules they see?
Again, you need to get out of the house more or officiate some real ball. Because everything that looks bad is not a violation or against the rules. Especially if you are a coach. Because most things that coaches think are rules, are the furthest from it (feet set to get a PC Foul, getting your own rebound on an air ball, not being able to come back inbounds and make a play on the ball). The list goes on and on.

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
Do officials' associations have authority to alter the rules of the game? To advise their members not to enforce violations?
What does an official's association have to do with altering the rules? I see again, more evidence you know nothing about officiating.

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
Someone here surely knows these answers and has a copy of the written document allowing officials to "pass on" calls. Surely it exists. Officials wouldn't intentionally allow the rules to be violated without sanction would they?

If you are an official, I see you are not a very good one. Mainly because you seem to not understand what "passing on" something even means. It does not mean that a violation or foul has taken place, but it does mean that it was a close play and the official in their judgment decided that there was nothing to call. And because basketball is such a fast sport, there are many places that things happen that might not warrant a call. But then again, you are not a good official to even know that fact. Because if you have been asking this for years, you have not really wanted to find out the answer. The main reason we as officials just to not T up a coach if one foot is out of the coaching box. Does the rules allow us to do that, of course it does. Is that good common sense officiating, to not be that strict and to do everything in your power to get the coach in that position. But folks like you will never understand that concept, because you spend more time trying to complain about what is done then realizing if we called all contact a foul and all marginal violations, the game would not be fun to watch and coaches and fans would be on us more than they are now. But then again, the fact you think that matters to "real" officials just shows what understanding of officiating and the game means to us when the coaches or fans get on us. I do not know about you, but I get paid regardless of who wins or loses. And if a coach does not like the job I do, I passed several to get to that one. Just one place I do not have to go. Makes life a little easier.

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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 05:47pm
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Re: Keep wondering

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy


No, you don't have a clue who I am. Nor I you. But that doesn't matter here. All that matters is the truth.

Oooo....a seeker of truth...well, this oughta be fun

Quote:

Stop defending Teddy Valentine. if you guys policed your own, you wouldn't hear the criticism you hear.
Not so, great seeker of truth. We see in the news every day cases where organizations go to great lengths to "police their own" yet still come under constant criticism. Being critical of those in authority is, for better or worse, a consequence of being human. (FWIW somehow those with the least tend to criticize the loudest...don't ask me why that is.)
Quote:

By the way, someone here said the official "passed on" three events of conduct by Xavier on the last three possessions.


please tell me someting. Where is the written authority for an official to "pass on" calling a violation of the rules?
Sure. First you tell me what is an "event of conduct"? If we are to seek truth, we must be precise, must we not? And while you're at it, maybe explain why you seem to have such little respect for officials in general yet proudly (if loosely) quote a single anonymous official? Hardly consistent, no?
Quote:

I have asked that question for years, but no one seems able to produce the written authority.

There is a very serious reason for asking that question.
Ahhh...you are not only a seeker of truth, you are a man of mystery! Please do reveal the very serious reason for your concern!
Quote:

This one too - Who gives officials authority to ever call anything other than every single violation of the rules they see?

Do officials' associations have authority to alter the rules of the game? To advise their members not to enforce violations?
I fear you are becoming redundant...and we do know redundancy is the sign of a weak mind. How disappointing!
Quote:

Someone here surely knows these answers and has a copy of the written document allowing officials to "pass on" calls. Surely it exists. Officials wouldn't intentionally allow the rules to be violated without sanction would they?

Just show me.
Yes, redundant. Please do try to be more thoughtful in the future.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 05:52pm
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Re: Keep wondering

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy

Just show me.


[/B]
Nope. It's a global conspiracy! All of the officials in the WORLD are out to get YOU! We KNOW where you live!

Bwahahahaha......

Lah me. Freaking idiot fanboys. Every spring they show up here. Just like cockroaches coming out after dark- I don't think that we'll ever get rid of them.
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 05:58pm
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Re: Re: Keep wondering

Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy

Just show me.

Nope. It's a global conspiracy! All of the officials in the WORLD are out to get YOU! We KNOW where you live!

Bwahahahaha......

Lah me. Freaking idiot fanboys. Every spring they show up here. Just like cockroaches coming out after dark- I don't think that we'll ever get rid of them. [/B]
Awww c'mon JR, he's a seeker of truth!

(Or as we say around here "He's a freakin' seekah of da troot!")
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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 06:30pm
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Re: No Texas fan at all and no Barnes fan

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy


BTW, what was the spread? It was a three point game when he 'went to to toe' with Barnes. It finished at 8.
Wasn't Texas favored?

If that is the case, the spread had nothing to do with the game. Texas is in the Big 12, and I would expect most betters would think that a Big 12 team would beat a Atlantic 10 team any day.

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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 06:47pm
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Re: Keep wondering

Quote:
Originally posted by Judge Roy
please tell me someting. Where is the written authority for an official to "pass on" calling a violation of the rules?

The introduction to the NFHS rules talks about intent and putpose of the rules and how rules must be inteligently applied in each situation. That gives the officials the authority to pass on calling things that might, by a strict black-and-white reading of the rules, be called.

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Old Sat Mar 27, 2004, 06:58pm
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Re: Keep wondering

Have you ever read.....no, have you ever SEEN a rule book?

If so, you would have no reason to even ask such a stupid question. You would know the answer.

Find a rule book and see if you find the words, "spirit and intent of the rules" and "advantage/disadvantage."

As far as having sought the answers to these questions, I doubt it. You could have easily found them if you wanted to. You're more interested in bashing officials, just for the sake of being a dumbass.

Perhaps you should look for the thread about Larry Rose and the ACC semifinal game between NC State and Maryland, where Rose correctly called a rule book T on NC State and was then blasted in the media by his BOSS!
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