Angry Coach at Halftime

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Assuming I heard a baseball coach tell one of his players to take out another player. Coach is done and report filed.

Pete Booth

Me too.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The first one shows we have jurisdiction in the locker room specifically over the use of electronic equipment.

You keep omitting this part for some reason.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

You keep omitting this part for some reason.

Because it doesn't tell us anywhere that our jurisdiction is limited to this one rule. That's the reason, I believe I've already stated that.

Case plays aren't designed to cover every single possible situation. Since this situation isn't very common, it's easy to explain why it's not specifically addressed.

There is no rule or case play that says our jurisdiction does not extend to the locker room at half time. Let me repeat my main question here:

Where does it say we don't have jurisdiction here?

Think of this: Referee goes to tell coach that there are 3:00 left in half time. Coach yells, though the door, "Fu@# you!"

I'm calling that T.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials...

If I had a nickel for every time that I heard a coach make that case after getting whacked...

Originally Posted by Ch1town

On defense in the 1st half, coach of Team B says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".
This type of commentary continues a few more trips down the court.

We let this slide because coach is not directly addressing us??
Or are you saying ignore comments not made directly to us during intermissions??

During the game the coach stands up and yells, "Keep working hard guys, I know that it's 8 on 5 out there." He isn't directly addressing the officials. His comments are to his players, right?

Get real.

Maybe a T here is not the choice course of action, but it's awfully hard to argue that we dont have rule support to do so with the following:

ART.2...The official's jurisdiction, prior to the game, begins when they arrive on the floor. The official's arrival on the floor shall be at least 15 minutes before the scheduled starting time of the game.

ART.3...The official's jurisdiction extends through periods when the game may be momentarily stopped for any reason.

ART.4...The jurisdiction of the officials' is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Originally Posted by just another ref

2-2-1: The officials shall make decisions for infractions of the rules committed within or outside the boundary lines.

ART.1...Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

Maybe the electronic device in the locker room caseplay is provided to show we do have jurisdiction during half time. For that specific situation &/or any other unsporting conduct.

The rules c l e a r l y state when our jurisdiction is over. I believe they would've added the words except during half time if that was the case.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I believe they would've added the words except during half time if that was the case.

Let's no go assuming that the committee used logic when putting the rules together.

Originally Posted by deecee

As for the second quote the coach said "these guys are calling ticky tack fouls" he never questioned my integrity he just stated his opinion on how we were calling the game and told his team to adjust.

Oh really?

Says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".

That could be interpreted as saying we weren't calling ticky-tacks on the other end. But interpretations are in the ears of the interpreter, I guess.

I was just killing the notion that we can't penalize commentary that isn't directed towards us even though it's about us. That was your defense on this stance, correct?

[refnrev]

[QUOTE=BillyMac;562569]Many years ago, as I was running past the home team's bench, I heard the head coach yell to his point guard, "Get your f***ing head in the game", after she had the ball stolen, leading to an easy score. It was intended for only her to hear, but I heard it, as did a few girls on the bench. On the way out that night, I reported this to the athletic director, telling him that I thought it was inappropriate, particularly on the high school level, especially with female players. He told me that he appreciated the information, and that he would take care of the matter. I guess he did, because I've never heard that coach use a curse word since that night.

Glad the outcome was good, but I'm not letting that one go. He said it during the game and was heard by the official. I'm whacking him.

[deecee]

[QUOTE=Ch1town;562788]

Oh really?

Says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".

That could be interpreted as saying we weren't calling ticky-tacks on the other end. But interpretations are in the ears of the interpreter, I guess.

I was just killing the notion that we can't penalize commentary that isn't directed towards us even though it's about us. That was your defense on this stance, correct?[/QUOTE]

Yes in this stitch. In others no. But i honestly wont take offense to what your coach said in your stitch if he says it once in his huddle. If he screams and yells it and makes a scene and hes showing us up then sure. But this was something just his team and I heard, I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he's frustrated, and attempting to coach. If he repeats then I will address him.

Originally Posted by deecee

But i honestly wont take offense to what your coach said in your stitch if he says it once in his huddle. If he screams and yells it and makes a scene and hes showing us up then sure. But this was something just his team and I heard, I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he's frustrated, and attempting to coach. If he repeats then I will address him.

With all due respect, I said nothing about a huddle.

On defense in the 1st half, coach of Team B says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".
This type of commentary continues a few more trips down the court.

Again, not talking directly to us, but it is directed at us.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

With all due respect, I said nothing about a huddle.

On defense in the 1st half, coach of Team B says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".
This type of commentary continues a few more trips down the court.

Again, not talking directly to us, but it is directed at us.

I would ask him to move on from that point after the second time -- if he says it again he earned the T.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I believe this sort of "stuff" happened at the University of Minnesota many moons ago. Can't remember the coach but it was a pretty gruesome story.

The Ohio State incident from 1971? Bill Musselman was the coach and Dave Winfield was a player for the Gophers.

Assuming that's the incident to which you are referring.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

=I believe this sort of "stuff" happened at the University of Minnesota many moons ago. Can't remember the coach but it was a pretty gruesome story.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The Ohio State incident from 1971? Bill Musselman was the coach and Dave Winfield was a player for the Gophers.

let's not forget the infamous John Cheny Temple/St Joseph game where he sent in a goon to foul, which ended up with a player breaking an and not being able to play in the post season.

[refnrev]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT THIS THREAD IS STILL GOING!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

This thread is degenerating in a thread where we are trying to compare apples to oranges.

Let us get back to the original situation (apples), a boys' H.S. varsity game played under NFHS Rules: The Home Team's lockerroom is adjacent to the game officials' dressing room; and due to poor "architectural design," the wall between the dressing room and the Home Team's lockerroom is not soundproof. During halftime the Home HC rants to his team about the officiating and naturally the officials can hear his tirade.

The are two basic groups in this thread:

(1) Officials that want to charge the HC with a TF and some of these officials would even say the TF should be a flagrant TF. The officials in this group have quoted a number of NFHS Rules that give the game officials to "take care of business" in this situation.

(2) Officials that will "ignore" the HC's conduct in his team's lockerroom.


This thread has now extended to conduct courtside (oranges). Ladies and germs (gentlemen) courtside conduct is not the same as conduct inside the sanctary of the lockerroom.

As everybody knows, I am in Group (2) along with Rut and Daryl among other officials. Group (2) officials understand that the seriousness of the Head Coach's conduct in the lockerroom. BUT, with very few rare exceptions (see my OP per the NCAA's position of HC's conduct in timeout huddles; this is one of these rare exception) game officials are persona non grata in a team's timeout huddle.

If one wants to punish the HC for his halftime lockerroom tirade there are ways without baiting him or minipulating the rules of the game.

I want to repeat my advice to the Group (1) officials and that is DO NOT go there. No matter how many rules are quoted there really is not rule support for charging the HC with a TF for his conduct in the lockerroom. Furthermore, I would advise the game officials to do what Daryl and I do when we encounter this type of situation, and belive me Daryl and I have been in this postion many times, laugh about it. I think it is funny that the coach would waste valuable time with his players to go bonkers about the offidciating.

MTD, Sr.