Correctable?--end of half shot

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My only question, is this a true correctable error, or is this officials getting together to to make a decision.....

I sorta had the same question, but decided the answer is: What's the difference?

[Adam]

If the official had counted a properly timed shot as a three instead of a two, they could fix it as a correctable error. This is no different.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What's the difference?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What's the difference?

A correctable error is one of five things during a basketball game that an official can definitely change and has a clearly specified timeframe in which that change must be made.

There are other aspects of the game in which a mistake by the officials or table crew either cannot be fixed at all once it happens or can be changed whenever it is noticed prior to the end of the game. Think of throw-ins to the wrong team and booking keeping mistakes.

Therefore, whether the situation in the OP is classified as a correctable error or simply a missed call and a partner providing help would impact WHEN this mistake can fixed.

If it is a CE then the goal can be cancelled even after the 2nd half has started. The officials would have until the first dead ball after the clock has properly started in the 3rd quarter becomes live to make the correction. If it is merely a help situation, then once the ball becomes live to begin the 3rd quarter the goal must stand, just like any OOB call. It's too late to fix it once play restarts.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Whether the situation in the OP is classified as a correctable error or simply a missed call and a partner providing help would impact WHEN this mistake can fixed. If it is a CE then the goal can be canceled even after the 2nd half has started. The officials would have until the first dead ball after the clock has properly started in the 3rd quarter becomes live to make the correction. If it is merely a help situation, then once the ball becomes live to begin the 3rd quarter the goal must stand, just like any OOB call. It's too late to fix it once play restarts.

Excellent point made in your first statement. However, you've left us with two "ifs" and no opinion either way. I believe, but not strongly, that it's a help situation, but I can be convinced otherwise.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If it is a CE then the goal can be cancelled even after the 2nd half has started. The officials would have until the first dead ball after the clock has properly started in the 3rd quarter becomes live to make the correction. If it is merely a help situation, then once the ball becomes live to begin the 3rd quarter the goal must stand, just like any OOB call. It's too late to fix it once play restarts.

Got all that. But since the OP takes place going into halftime, the correction would pretty much be made then or not at all. Can we think of an example when the time restriction would come into play on the "erroneously counting or canceling a score" part of this rule?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Excellent point made in your first statement. However, you've left us with two "ifs" and no opinion either way. I believe, but not strongly, that it's a help situation, but I can be convinced otherwise.

I already provided that info in post #3.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Got all that. But since the OP takes place going into halftime, the correction would pretty much be made then or not at all. Can we think of an example when the time restriction would come into play on the "erroneously counting or canceling a score" part of this rule?

Sure.

Two point shot made with a toe on the 3 point line during play. The covering official incorrectly signals a three. The clock is running and his partner doesn't halt play despite clearly observing the location of the shooter's feet. After the throw-in the opposing team advances the ball to the other end of the court and a foul is called.
The officials must correct the error and properly award only two points for the previous goal before the ball becomes live again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I already provided that info in post #3.

So, in the original post, once the ball becomes live to start the third period, it's still not to late to take away the basket, but after that, once the ball becomes dead, and then live, it's too late to change the score.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So, in the original post, once the ball becomes live to start the third period, it's still not to late to take away the basket, but after that, once the ball becomes dead, and then live, it's too late to change the score.

Correct.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Two point shot made with a toe on the 3 point line during play. The covering official incorrectly signals a three. The clock is running and his partner doesn't halt play despite clearly observing the location of the shooter's feet. After the throw-in the opposing team advances the ball to the other end of the court and a foul is called.
The officials must correct the error and properly award only two points for the previous goal before the ball becomes live again.

I meant like the OP. It's good. No, it's not.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I meant like the OP.

Ok, let's say that the covering official (U) counts the goal and the other official (R) saw it as late, but is unaware that his partner scored it.
They fail to discuss the play during halftime because each one thought it was handled properly and are unaware of any problem.

When play resumes in the 3rd quarter the same team who was credited with the goal at the end of the 2nd quarter has the AP arrow. They inbound and score a basket on that possession. The opposing coach now requests a time-out because he believes that the score is wrong. He can't understand why his team is trailing by six instead of only four. He thought that he was only down two at halftime.

So now the R becomes aware that his partner incorrectly counted the goal at the end of the 1st half. Since this is a correctable error and the R gets to make the decision when the officials disagree on whether or not a goal shall count, he can still make the change.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The R gets to make the decision when the officials disagree on whether or not a goal shall count.

2-5-3: The referee shall: Decide whether a goal shall count if the officials disagree.

Good point to include this rule in the thread.

Also, if the table gets involved:

3-13-3: If the timer’s signal fails to sound, or is not heard, the timer shall go onto the court or use other means to immediately notify the referee. If in the meantime, a goal has been made or a foul has occurred, the referee shall consult the timer:
ART. 1 . . . If table officials agree that time expired before the ball was in flight, the goal shall not count.
ART. 2 . . . If table officials agree that the quarter or extra period ended, as in 5-6-2 before the foul occurred, the foul shall be disregarded, unless it was intentional or flagrant.
ART. 3 . . . If table officials disagree, the goal shall count and/or the foul shall be penalized, unless the referee has knowledge which alters such ruling.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Ok, let's say that the covering official (U) counts the goal and the other official (R) saw it as late, but is unaware that his partner scored it.
They fail to discuss the play during halftime because each one thought it was handled properly and are unaware of any problem.

When play resumes in the 3rd quarter the same team who was credited with the goal at the end of the 2nd quarter has the AP arrow. They inbound and score a basket on that possession. The opposing coach now requests a time-out because he believes that the score is wrong. He can't understand why his team is trailing by six instead of only four. He thought that he was only down two at halftime.

So now the R becomes aware that his partner incorrectly counted the goal at the end of the 1st half. Since this is a correctable error and the R gets to make the decision when the officials disagree on whether or not a goal shall count, he can still make the change.

Okay, the coach thought the goal didn't count even though the official signaled that it did, and then didn't notice the wrong score until after play had started and there was another score.

uh-huh

Let's just say it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the time limit would come into play for this type of correction.