Reset shot clock before FT on correctable error?

[Lotto]

Here's what happened tonight. After A1 shoots the ball, A2 pushes B1 and is called for the foul. Team B is in the bonus, but we give the ball to B out of bounds. B inbounds and brings the ball upcourt. After a few seconds, I realize that we should have shot 1-1. I blow my whistle and recognize the correctable error. We put B1 on the line to shoot 1-1. The timer asks, "Do we reset the shot clock?" I think for a moment and decide yes, but I'm thinking to myself that I'd better look it up in the rulebook when I get home. So I did a quick look, but I don't see any rule that tells me that I should reset.

Thoughts? Rule reference?

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by Lotto
Here's what happened tonight. After A1 shoots the ball, A2 pushes B1 and is called for the foul. Team B is in the bonus, but we give the ball to B out of bounds. B inbounds and brings the ball upcourt. After a few seconds, I realize that we should have shot 1-1. I blow my whistle and recognize the correctable error. We put B1 on the line to shoot 1-1. The timer asks, "Do we reset the shot clock?" I think for a moment and decide yes, but I'm thinking to myself that I'd better look it up in the rulebook when I get home. So I did a quick look, but I don't see any rule that tells me that I should reset.

Thoughts? Rule reference?

The shot clock is reset when a foul occurs.

A foul has occurred. You have just gotten around to properly recognizing it.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

The shot clock is reset when a foul occurs.

A foul has occurred. You have just gotten around to properly recognizing it.

No, we recognized the foul (reported it, etc) and reset the shot clock when we gave the ball to B to inbounds. When I stopped play to deal with the correctable error, the foul had occurred 17 seconds previously.

[Mark Dexter]

I say reset the clock (2-10-4 in the 2004 rulebook). No change of posession, so you start as after "any normal freethrow." I, for one, have never seen a shot clock at less than 35(30) during a FT.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I say reset the clock (2-10-4 in the 2004 rulebook). No change of posession, so you start as after "any normal freethrow." I, for one, have never seen a shot clock at less than 35(30) during a FT.

That was my reasoning, too. But if you look at when the shot-clock operator is supposed to reset (2-14 in the 2006 NCAA rulebook), it's hard to find which situation applies.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Lotto

That was my reasoning, too. But if you look at when the shot-clock operator is supposed to reset (2-14 in the 2006 NCAA rulebook), it's hard to find which situation applies.

It's is? 2-1-4-6b seems to apply: "When a foul occurs (exceptions:" (double or simultaneous foul; T on offense)

Look at it this way -- Team control will be lost on the FTs, so whoever gets the rebound, or inbounds the ball, will have a full shot-clock.

[lukealex]

As this applies to FED rules, I believe time is not put back on the game clock, correct?

[Lotto]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

It's is? 2-1-4-6b seems to apply: "When a foul occurs (exceptions:" (double or simultaneous foul; T on offense)

Look at it this way -- Team control will be lost on the FTs, so whoever gets the rebound, or inbounds the ball, will have a full shot-clock.

As I said above, the foul occured 17 seconds previous to when the correctable error was recognized. The clock was properly reset at that point.

Also, the clock is not reset on loss of team control, but rather when the other team gains control.

I believe that it's right to reset the shot clock in this scenario; I'm just looking for a rules justification of that opinion.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Lotto

As I said above, the foul occured 17 seconds previous to when the correctable error was recognized. The clock was properly reset at that point.

Also, the clock is not reset on loss of team control, but rather when the other team gains control.

I believe that it's right to reset the shot clock in this scenario; I'm just looking for a rules justification of that opinion.

I'm not comfortable giving B those 17 seconds back on the shot clock if they secure the rebound after their free throw. In that case they earned a 52 second shot clock period by your mistake. So I'm tempted to say reset the shot clock after the FT only if A takes possession on the rebound or after a made FT. I can't back this up by rule.

Similarly I would not reset the shot clock if we were going back to POI after the attempted FTs (ie A had team possession in your play).

[ChuckElias]

Of course you reset it. The shot clock is reset any time a try for goal strikes the rim. When the FT shooter releases his try, it either hits the rim or it doesn't. If it does, then you reset for striking the rim. If it doesn't, then you reset b/c the defense gets control.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Of course you reset it. The shot clock is reset any time a try for goal strikes the rim. When the FT shooter releases his try, it either hits the rim or it doesn't. If it does, then you reset for striking the rim. If it doesn't, then you reset b/c the defense gets control.

Hmmmm...lessee...

Art. 5. Start the timing device when a player in bounds legally touches
or is touched by the ball on a throw-in or when a team initially gains
possession from a jump ball, an unsuccessful try for goal or when possession
is gained of a loose ball after a jump ball or unsuccessful try for
goal.

You do not start the shot clock on a FT.

and

Art. 6. Stop the timing device and reset it:
.
.
.
d. When a try for goal strikes the ring or flange and then possession is gained by either team;

Wording here strongly implies the shot clock must be running in order to reset it when it hits...if not how else would you stop it AND reset it?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Of course you reset it. The shot clock is reset any time a try for goal strikes the rim. When the FT shooter releases his try, it either hits the rim or it doesn't. If it does, then you reset for striking the rim. If it doesn't, then you reset b/c the defense gets control.

I originally thought this, too, but I think it is incorrect reasoning. By definition, a try for goal is a 2 or 3-point shot, and a FT is not a try.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I originally thought this, too, but I think it is incorrect reasoning. By definition, a try for goal is a 2 or 3-point shot, and a FT is not a try.

That was my first reaction as well Mark, but the rule says try for a goal, not try for a field goal. And:

Section 31. Goal
Art. 1. A goal shall be made when:
a. A live ball that is not a throw-in enters the basket from above and
remains in or passes through, or
b. A free throw enters the basket from above and remains in or passes
through.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
That was my first reaction as well Mark, but the rule says try for a goal, not try for a field goal.

However, looking through the rulebook, the phrase "try for goal" is used completely synonymously with "try for field goal."

[icallfouls]

Reset and shoot the FT's, when possession is gained by either team the shot clock will wind down from 35/30.

[Edited by icallfouls on Dec 21st, 2005 at 05:54 PM]