Correctable timing issue?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sseltser

I have 2 issues with this.

First, 5-10-2 stipulates "an official's count OR other official information." What else is other official information? I can't think of anything else (except for the few states, including mine, that use a shot clock -- and supposing that the 2 aren't wired to start and stop simultaneously).

The Referee is allowed to check with the timer and obtain information from that person. Perhaps the clock switch malfunctioned so he looked at his watch until play was stopped.

Originally Posted by sseltser

Second, I didn't think of this the first time I heard you say this, but how do you explain this: With 10 seconds left, A throws in into the front court. The official begins visibly counting (per your recommendation) in case of a timing error. The official judges a defender to not be closely guarding, but its debatable. When the count gets to five, how do you explain to B HC that there isn't a violation? The purpose of the visible count is to provide information, and typically, it's for situations such as these.

Use a different arm movement than your normal counting. Not that hard. Also, I would think that if a scoring play isn't in progress an official who has knowledge that the clock isn't running properly would sound the whistle and stop play. That should take care of most situations in which there isn't a 5-second count.

The only two cases in which I would count instead of stopping play are a quick scoring play occurring immediately upon a restart or when there is very little time remaining in a quarter or extra period and continuous playing action is of paramount importance. For example, on a throw-in with six seconds left and a team having to go the length of the court to score, I would rather just count out the six seconds than break the action.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good point, not just in this situation, but for everything we do. I had a parent tape a last second "heave" on his cell phone a few weekends ago. Luckily, this time, I was right calling off the shot. Tough call. I could have just as easily been wrong.

I have never seen a video tape of a non-TV high school game that showed the clock and the action at the same time. You only have to worry about this if you have too much to worry about.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have never seen a video tape of a non-TV high school game that showed the clock and the action at the same time. You only have to worry about this if you have too much to worry about.

Remember, it's not the clock that ends the period in NFHS games, it's the horn, and this cellphone had sound, and we heard the horn clearly before the ball was released.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Use a different arm movement than your normal counting. Not that hard.

Where is that mentioned in the book?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The counts needs to be visible and with all of the video that is being captured of games these days, you had darn well better be able to have the tape back you up if you make a timing correction.

And just when you think you are out of the woods, that same darn video proves that on your blarge call, one of you was definitely wrong.


I would think pretty much every night video of the game would be both a friend and an enemy to most of us.

The three second count is not a visible count. Is this not definite information?

[Nevadaref]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Use a different arm movement than your normal counting. Not that hard.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Where is that mentioned in the book?

It's not. I just gave it as a suggestion, if he wished to distinguish his count. It is highly likely that this is unnecessary as the times when it is best to let the action continue despite knowledge that the clock isn't properly running occur in great minority when compared to those situations when it is best to simply halt play and deal with the clock right away.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And just when you think you are out of the woods, that same darn video proves that on your blarge call, one of you was definitely wrong.

You're a funny man JAR.

Originally Posted by just another ref

I would think pretty much every night video of the game would be both a friend and an enemy to most of us.

Yep, video is going to confirm the calls that you got right and highlight the ones that you missed. Anyone who is willing to watch tape with an open mind and be objective about his/her performance can learn and improve a great deal.

Originally Posted by just another ref

The three second count is not a visible count. Is this not definite information?

I do not believe that a three second count for a player in the lane is constitutes "definite knowledge" under NFHS rules for correcting a timing error. JMO.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I do not believe that a three second count for a player in the lane is constitutes "definite knowledge" under NFHS rules for correcting a timing error.

Why the hell not? One, two, ball knocked out of bounds. Clock hasn't started.
You can't take off two seconds?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by sseltser

First, 5-10-2 stipulates "an official's count OR other official information."

I agree -- and I don't think it need only be any type of rules-based count (e.g., 5-second closely guarded, etc.)

[Kelvin green]

I' m with Bob on this one.

Nothing says you need a count going nothing says it needs to a situation where a count is going.

If I know the clock has not started. I will count to a point where I can stop the play and correct it... I am sure as heck not going to blow a fast break because clcok did not start.