end of game timing issue

[just another ref]

Visitors ball under their own basket with 1.2 seconds left. A1's pass is intercepted by B1 who unsuccessfully asks for a time out before landing OOB. But, simultaneously with the whistle or a tiny fraction afterward, the buzzer sounds, clock shows 0:00, game over. From the description I got, it sounds like the clock may have started before the pass was touched. The question is, even if the official sees the clock start to move while the pass is in the air, there is no way to make a correction here, correct?

A footnote: Visitors' coach threw a fit, saying time should be put back. Officials apparently had a lengthy discussion about the play, during which visitors' fans threw stuff all over the court. Then, apparently thinking the game was not over, the visiting players scurried around and cleaned up the debris.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Visitors ball under their own basket with 1.2 seconds left. A1's pass is intercepted by B1 who unsuccessfully asks for a time out before landing OOB.

A better question is why was B1's TO request unsuccessful? If he caught the pass while in the air and asked prior to landing OOB, you grant it. Even if he didn't, it's a dead ball after landing OOB and if he asks then, you should grant it.

[blindzebra]

This is why the fed needs a touching equals X amount of time off rule.

This is a timers error, the last known time is 1.2...there is only a game over provision for an officials error.

This should be A's ball at the spot of the OOB violation with 1.2 remaining.

[Damian]

If an official has direct knowledge of a timing issue, they can resolve it. In this case, if you knew you had 1.2 sec and a timeout was called at first touch, you could adjust this.

[JoeTheRef]

Are you saying that the official saw the clock start while the ball was in the air before it was touched??? Why wouldn't he be able to put time back on?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Damian

If an official has direct knowledge of a timing issue, they can resolve it. In this case, if you knew you had 1.2 sec and a timeout was called at first touch, you could adjust this.

To what?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

This is why the fed needs a touching equals X amount of time off rule.

This is a timers error, the last known time is 1.2...there is only a game over provision for an officials error.

This should be A's ball at the spot of the OOB violation with 1.2 remaining.

If B called timeout while in control before going OOB then the timeout should be granted and there is no OOB violation.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

If B called timeout while in control before going OOB then the timeout should be granted and there is no OOB violation.

I'm just going by what was in the OP...in either case it is someones ball at that spot with 1.2 left.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Visitors ball under their own basket with 1.2 seconds left. A1's pass is intercepted by B1 who unsuccessfully asks for a time out before landing OOB. But, simultaneously with the whistle or a tiny fraction afterward, the buzzer sounds, clock shows 0:00, game over.

-The clock starts when B1 legally touches the throw-in. NFHS rule 5-9-4.
- The clock now stops when the official granted the timeout request by B1. NFHS rule 5-8-3(a).
-The quarter ended when the buzzer sounded. NFHS rule 5-6-2.
-To put any time back on the clock, the official must have definite information as to how much time remained when the timeout request was granted. NFHS rule 5-10.

In this case, the officials(s) did not have any definite information that would allow them to put any time back on the clock. Game over, by rule.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Damian

If an official has direct knowledge of a timing issue, they can resolve it. In this case, if you knew you had 1.2 sec and a timeout was called at first touch, you could adjust this.

You can't grant a TO request on the first touch. A TO request can't be granted until the player has control. Big difference, rules-wise. And you have to know the actual time remaining when you granted the TO request on the first player control. In this case, you don't have that information. That's why you can't adjust the time.

Rules rulez!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

A better question is why was B1's TO request unsuccessful? If he caught the pass while in the air and asked prior to landing OOB, you grant it. Even if he didn't, it's a dead ball after landing OOB and if he asks then, you should grant it.

I wasn't there. I'm not sure whether they would have granted his request or not, but the buzzer sounded, more or less with the whistle, so it really didn't matter.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

This is why the fed needs a touching equals X amount of time off rule.

This is a timers error, the last known time is 1.2...there is only a game over provision for an officials error.

This should be A's ball at the spot of the OOB violation with 1.2 remaining.

Based on what?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Are you saying that the official saw the clock start while the ball was in the air before it was touched??? Why wouldn't he be able to put time back on?

I'm not sure what they saw. I was saying even if they did see the clock start to move before the touch, it would be virtually impossible to have definite knowledge of how many tenths had run off when it actually was touched.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

If B called timeout while in control before going OOB then the timeout should be granted and there is no OOB violation.

This is true if the official recognized the timeout request, then looked at the clock and saw a specific amount of time remaining. Apparently this was not the case. I do not know (yet) if the official recognized the request before the player landed or not.

[just another ref]

To explain further, when I say that the clock may have started early, it may be totally unjustified. How long is a long time for a player to be in the air in a play such as this. I have no information about exactly how much height or distance was covered, but I picture a steal based more on anticipation than on any kind of incredibly athletic play. Also, we must remember that the catch was made while the player was already in the air, so if the timing was correct, the hang time was some amount in excess of 1.2. Is this a long time in the air or not?