Clock did not start

[tjones1]

A... and you lost your box for the remainder of the game.

It's possible he had definite knowledge. Whose to say he didn't?

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Read this:

Clock doesn't start question

NNNNOOOOOOO! I locked that one out BEFORE it got locked..

Originally Posted by tjones1

A... and you lost your box for the remainder of the game.

It's possible he had definite knowledge. Whose to say he didn't?

I'm guessing he's guessing because he initially wanted 10 seconds and then told the timer after 9 were ticked off, "stop, that's fine". But I suppose it's possible he was replaying the game in his head while the timer was winding it down. Would you consider that "definite"?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by CoachP

I'm guessing he's guessing because he initially wanted 10 seconds and then told the timer after 9 were ticked off, "stop, that's fine". But I suppose it's possible he was replaying the game in his head while the timer was winding it down. Would you consider that "definite"?

I wouldn't, but someone else might.

[mbyron]

Is there a difference between "definite" and "precise" knowledge? Could I definitely know that about 10 seconds should come off the clock?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Is there a difference between "definite" and "precise" knowledge? Could I definitely know that about 10 seconds should come off the clock?

The funny thing there is no "precise" definition in the rules what he word "definite" means as it relates specifically to this rule. And the rule gives officials the power to use their counts and other information to help decide. And in this case the official had definite knowledge the clock should have started. He/she had definite knowledge the clock was not supposed to sit at 8:00 on the clock after play had continued. And unless you can show me evidence of something, there is nothing that says he/she did not have definite knowledge the clock should be at that point in the game. Unless you are a mind reader or know how people draw conclusions about things, you have no "definite" knowledge they did or did not apply the rule. Of course they could tell you, but I find it funny that people seem to know things by only reading some words on a discussion board.

Peace

[just another ref]

The phrase in the book on this issue is "definite information relative to the time involved." I personally don't think a sentence containing "about" or "at least" could be considered definite information. But forget about the books for a minute. Common sense tells us that in this case 8:00 left on the clock cannot be correct. But why tinker with the rule if you don't have a count on how much time to take off? A few extra seconds on the clock at the beginning of a quarter does not provide an advantage or disadvantage for either team. Forget it and move on.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by CoachP

I'm guessing he's guessing because he initially wanted 10 seconds and then told the timer after 9 were ticked off, "stop, that's fine".
Would you consider that "definite"?

One of the things we were taught to do was not knock of 5 or 10 seconds - make it 4 or 6 or 8 or 12,
the more exact number tends to limit prople from asking questions about how much ran off rather than a round number.

Now this was at the college level and we are also told to estimate if we are not sure so this might not be the thing to do at the Fed level but it is very effective.

[CoachP]

I do think it's easier to be less critical of the clock not starting at the opening tip of a game than to use the same thinking in a tie game, 7 seconds to go.

Either way, it's sounds like it should be "automatic" that one official is always checking the clock on all would-be-starts...correct?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Either way, it's sounds like it should be "automatic" that one official is always checking the clock on all would-be-starts...correct?

Yep, whichever official is chopping in the time has that responsibility.
Unfortunately, most officials don't take it too seriously. They just hold up a hand and then chop without ever looking to see if the clock actually starts.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yep, whichever official is chopping in the time has that responsibility.

I find it easier / more effective for the official who is not immediately "on ball" to check the clock.
It's more likely that that official will "have time" to check the clock..

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I find it easier / more effective for the official who is not immediately "on ball" to check the clock.
It's more likely that that official will "have time" to check the clock..

I was taught a long time ago, if you can watch the clock, watch the clock regardless of where you are. Of course this is hard if the clock is not in clear view. But it is not uncommon in many gyms to clocks on both ends of the court and if that is the case you can put the clock in your peripheral vision and see the clock. It is not full proof, but that is what I try to do and it usually works. But I will say most of the time I catch the clock not starting properly I am not the official "on ball."

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I find it easier / more effective for the official who is not immediately "on ball" to check the clock.
It's more likely that that official will "have time" to check the clock..

I was thinking the same thing. As the U on a two person crew, I've got a lot of things I'm responsible for, and a lot of things to worry about that might happen at the moment the clock should start. Better, IMO, for the R to quickly check the arrow and clock at his first opportunity.