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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 17, 2008, 07:53am
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Clock did not start

Opening tip last night, Girls V.

We are home and V wins the jump ball. Play goes on for a couple dribbles and passes and then we deflect the ball OOB. As R1 is administering throw in, timer his hitting the horn. Clock still reads 8:00. R1 comes over to table and instructs timer to run the clock down 10 seconds (after we plug in the hand held timer switch). Gets down to 7:51 and says "stop,thats fine" and walks away.

Test---What did CoachP do?
a) Whip out the rule book and show R1 he needed definite knowledge.
b) Sit there and say nothing

Halftime- we are up 41 - 6 and R2 calls a foul on A1 her 3rd. R2 says to me next trip down, "We are calling it much tighter on you this half. Final 57-22
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Old Wed Dec 17, 2008, 09:02am
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Read this:

Clock doesn't start question
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Old Wed Dec 17, 2008, 09:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
Opening tip last night, Girls V.

We are home and V wins the jump ball. Play goes on for a couple dribbles and passes and then we deflect the ball OOB. As R1 is administering throw in, timer his hitting the horn. Clock still reads 8:00. R1 comes over to table and instructs timer to run the clock down 10 seconds (after we plug in the hand held timer switch). Gets down to 7:51 and says "stop,thats fine" and walks away.

Test---What did CoachP do?
a) Whip out the rule book and show R1 he needed definite knowledge.
b) Sit there and say nothing
B: Smart move, coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
Halftime- we are up 41 - 6 and R2 calls a foul on A1 her 3rd. R2 says to me next trip down, "We are calling it much tighter on you this half.
Absolutely disgusting.
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Old Wed Dec 17, 2008, 09:48am
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Was a certain poster from this forum one of your officials?
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Old Wed Dec 17, 2008, 10:19am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Was a certain poster from this forum one of your officials?
I thought the exact same thing LOL

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Old Wed Dec 17, 2008, 06:33pm
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A... and you lost your box for the remainder of the game.

It's possible he had definite knowledge. Whose to say he didn't?
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 07:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref View Post
NNNNOOOOOOO! I locked that one out BEFORE it got locked..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 View Post
A... and you lost your box for the remainder of the game.

It's possible he had definite knowledge. Whose to say he didn't?
I'm guessing he's guessing because he initially wanted 10 seconds and then told the timer after 9 were ticked off, "stop, that's fine". But I suppose it's possible he was replaying the game in his head while the timer was winding it down. Would you consider that "definite"?
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 09:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
I'm guessing he's guessing because he initially wanted 10 seconds and then told the timer after 9 were ticked off, "stop, that's fine". But I suppose it's possible he was replaying the game in his head while the timer was winding it down. Would you consider that "definite"?
I wouldn't, but someone else might.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 09:46am
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Is there a difference between "definite" and "precise" knowledge? Could I definitely know that about 10 seconds should come off the clock?
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
I'm guessing he's guessing because he initially wanted 10 seconds and then told the timer after 9 were ticked off, "stop, that's fine".
Would you consider that "definite"?
One of the things we were taught to do was not knock of 5 or 10 seconds - make it 4 or 6 or 8 or 12,
the more exact number tends to limit prople from asking questions about how much ran off rather than a round number.

Now this was at the college level and we are also told to estimate if we are not sure so this might not be the thing to do at the Fed level but it is very effective.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 10:10am
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I do think it's easier to be less critical of the clock not starting at the opening tip of a game than to use the same thinking in a tie game, 7 seconds to go.

Either way, it's sounds like it should be "automatic" that one official is always checking the clock on all would-be-starts...correct?
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 10:28am
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Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
Either way, it's sounds like it should be "automatic" that one official is always checking the clock on all would-be-starts...correct?
Yep, whichever official is chopping in the time has that responsibility.
Unfortunately, most officials don't take it too seriously. They just hold up a hand and then chop without ever looking to see if the clock actually starts.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Is there a difference between "definite" and "precise" knowledge? Could I definitely know that about 10 seconds should come off the clock?
The funny thing there is no "precise" definition in the rules what he word "definite" means as it relates specifically to this rule. And the rule gives officials the power to use their counts and other information to help decide. And in this case the official had definite knowledge the clock should have started. He/she had definite knowledge the clock was not supposed to sit at 8:00 on the clock after play had continued. And unless you can show me evidence of something, there is nothing that says he/she did not have definite knowledge the clock should be at that point in the game. Unless you are a mind reader or know how people draw conclusions about things, you have no "definite" knowledge they did or did not apply the rule. Of course they could tell you, but I find it funny that people seem to know things by only reading some words on a discussion board.

Peace
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 12:56pm
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The phrase in the book on this issue is "definite information relative to the time involved." I personally don't think a sentence containing "about" or "at least" could be considered definite information. But forget about the books for a minute. Common sense tells us that in this case 8:00 left on the clock cannot be correct. But why tinker with the rule if you don't have a count on how much time to take off? A few extra seconds on the clock at the beginning of a quarter does not provide an advantage or disadvantage for either team. Forget it and move on.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 01:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Yep, whichever official is chopping in the time has that responsibility.
I find it easier / more effective for the official who is not immediately "on ball" to check the clock.
It's more likely that that official will "have time" to check the clock..
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