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Old Mon Dec 08, 2008, 12:37pm
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Technical foul? Elbow

A1 has just received an in-bounds pass after B's made basket. B1 is applying heavy pressure on A1, who is getting frustrated. B1 is right up on A1 but not making contact, just playing intense defense.

A1 is holding the ball in his left arm against his body and uses his right elbow to brush off B2. It wasn't contact to the head, and was more of a brush off than a swing.

My partner called a technical foul in this situation.

I would have probably had an intentional foul (not technical). I don't believe there was intent to injure (although there was a lot of frustration on A1's face) and I didn't think it warranted a flagrant, but using the elbow to brush off is a no-no.

What do you think? Clearly T is the wrong call here, right?
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2008, 12:38pm
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Live ball contact? You can call an intentional, a personal (PC), or a flagrant. Tech really isn't an option.
From what you wrote, I'd probably go with a standard PC foul.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2008, 12:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiasco View Post
Clearly T is the wrong call here, right?
Yes. You cannot have a technical foul for contact during a live ball.

Player control, intentional, or flagrant personal were the options.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2008, 01:10pm
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It's a violation

Excessive swinging of elbow is a violation not a foul
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2008, 01:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking View Post
Excessive swinging of elbow is a violation not a foul
That's if there is no contact...there was obviously contact in this example.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2008, 01:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking View Post
Excessive swinging of elbow is a violation not a foul
Pushing an opponent with the elbow is a foul.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2008, 09:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Live ball contact? You can call an intentional, a personal (PC), or a flagrant. Tech really isn't an option.
From what you wrote, I'd probably go with a standard PC foul.
Yes. Did not sound malicious so no need for intentional. I wonder how the kid kept the ball under his arm amidst heavy pressure?
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2008, 10:20pm
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Player control
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Old Tue Dec 09, 2008, 08:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking View Post
Excessive swinging of elbow is a violation not a foul
go back and read what excessive swing is vs what is in the post.

this is using an elbow that was " more of a brush off than a swing"

also the left arm was against the body. I do not have this being a violation in any way shape or form.

this is PC foul and move on.
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Old Tue Dec 09, 2008, 09:14am
Ref Ump Welsch
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The most recent officials mag from the FED had an article about live ball vs. dead ball fouls. Live=personal foul (can be intentional or flagrant, etc). Dead=Technical (can be flagrant). Many officials make the mistake according to the article. It's a good read!
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