Double Whistle Situation

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

There are shared primary areas, though. There's even one area shared by three officials that can (and does) lead to a triple whistle.

You should check the current NFHS Officials Manual. The dual coverage area was dropped a couple of years ago.

[TravelinMan]

So what does the rest of the forum think about pre-gaming blarge this way. i.e., primary responsibility. This is the way they addressed blarge in NY and NC. I'd have a very difficult time selling a double foul. I would rather avoid the blarge AT ALL COSTS. Jack BTW Wish everybody a Happy Thanksgiving. This forum has helped me so much in improving as an official.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by TravelinMan

I'd have a very difficult time selling a double foul.

Why?

I would rather avoid the blarge AT ALL COSTS.

Why?

[TravelinMan]

Scrapper -

I am of the opinion that you can't have both a charge and a block on the same play. It is either one or the other. That is why I try to avoid it at all costs. It's kinda like a crocogator. That's an animal with the upper body of a crocodile and the lower body of an alligator. It's the meanest animal alive. You would be too if you couldn't take a S***!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by TravelinMan

I am of the opinion that you can't have both a charge and a block on the same play. It is either one or the other.

While I am of the same opinion as you, the rules (case plays) tell us EXPLICITLY that when officials give differing signals, you assess both as a double foul. It doesn't matter at all whether I am of this OPINION or not.

And as for selling it, it's amazingly easy. You just start the sentence by saying, "Coach, BY RULE. . ."

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

While I am of the same opinion as you, the rules (case plays) tell us EXPLICITLY that when officials give differing signals, you assess both as a double foul. It doesn't matter at all whether I am of this OPINION or not.

And as for selling it, it's amazingly easy. You just start the sentence by saying, "Coach, BY RULE. . ."

Nice!
Thanks.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Question: Why do we form an angry mob about a backcourt interpretation but defend this issue with its direct contradiction?

Let me put my pitchfork and torch down for minute and try to explain it.

The backcourt interp we yell and scream about is just wrong from a rules standpoint. It is an (apparent) mistake by the NFHS. We'll jump up and down about it all day long, then actually go out and make that call at night, because that's what we're supposed to do. (And, of course, grumble while giving the signal...)

The blarge call is essentially a mistake by the officials. If the officials are doing their job properly, the primary official will be making the call. But what happens when two officials make conflicting calls about the same play? The case play tells us what to do - we have to report both fouls. It's not that the NFHS is telling us that both a charge and a block can actually happen at the same time, they're just telling us how to handle the situation where two officials have disagreed (for however short a time) on a call. I believe I read at one point the reason behind this is the theory that no official has the right to over-rule another's call. If everyone sees an official call a charge, then another official comes in and says, "It's in my primary - it's a block!", then that second official has seemingly over-ruled the first.

To me, it's no different than what happens when an official blows the whistle on a TO request when that team isn't entitled to a TO - you still grant the TO anyway.

In both cases, it's an official's mistake in some way, and the rules tell us what to do in those cases. I don't happen to agree - I would rather do it the way the NCAA-W handle it by the two officials coming together and coming out with one call. But, we don't get that option in NFHS rules. We can grumble about it all day long, then go out and make sure we get the call right in the first place so this never comes into play.

[walter]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

While I am of the same opinion as you, the rules (case plays) tell us EXPLICITLY that when officials give differing signals, you assess both as a double foul. It doesn't matter at all whether I am of this OPINION or not.

And as for selling it, it's amazingly easy. You just start the sentence by saying, "Coach, BY RULE. . ."

I had this twice last season (yikes!!!) in two different games. I was working with the same official who just refuses to refrain from giving preliminary signals whether it is in his primary or not and it got us in trouble on two bang, bang, got it sell it calls in my primary (lead). Regardless, I got both coaches together and did just what Scrapper suggested, "Coaches, by rule, we have a double foul situation..." In both games (one a playoff game), the coaches accepted the explanantion and we went on from POI. I pregame this every time no matter the level of game or experience of partner(s). This one official just refuses and gives a prelim on every call.

[TravelinMan]

Scrapper, M&M - good explanation, thanks. I will add that to my pregame.

[TravelinMan]

Walter, thanks. Will add that (hold up on prelim signal) to my pre-game as well.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by TravelinMan

Walter, thanks. Will add that (hold up on prelim signal) to my pre-game as well.

Yes, its called "blow and hold" and its one of the best tools you can have in your toolbag.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by walter

I had this twice last season (yikes!!!) in two different games. I was working with the same official who just refuses to refrain from giving preliminary signals whether it is in his primary or not and it got us in trouble on two bang, bang, got it sell it calls in my primary (lead). Regardless, I got both coaches together and did just what Scrapper suggested, "Coaches, by rule, we have a double foul situation..." In both games (one a playoff game), the coaches accepted the explanantion and we went on from POI. I pregame this every time no matter the level of game or experience of partner(s). This one official just refuses and gives a prelim on every call.

I thought double foul (and Double T)= arrow?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by CoachP

I thought double foul (and Double T)= arrow?

POI (which might be arrow, might not)

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Smitty

POI (which might be arrow, might not)

So what's the POI on the infamous blarge? Lead has a PC and C has a block?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by CoachP

So what's the POI on the infamous blarge? Lead has a PC and C has a block?

Rule 4-36. If there was team control, then ball is given to the team last in control at the time of the double foul.