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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 10:47am
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Had a different take on the double whistle situation and wanted to see how you all would handle this....

I was lead at the baseline and my partner is trail out by the half court line. My partner blows his whistle on A for a BC violation. At the exact same time, I blow my whistle for a push by B under the basket.

We make eye contact he is signaling BC and I have my fist up so we come together and somehow decide that my foul was first and we went with that.

Are there any better ways to handle it? Of course, one coach was happy and one wasn't....
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 11:11am
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You did what you thought came first,end of discussion. Now to add to this, one of you had to know what whistle came first so from there you make your decision and sell it to the coach.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 11:14am
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Quote:
Originally posted by MichiganOfficial
one of you had to know what whistle came first
The original post explicitly says that the whistles were at the same time.

Having said that, I agree that the situation was handled correctly. If we have a foul and a violation, we have to decide which one came first. You did that, and that's all you say to the coach. "The foul happened first, Coach, so there's no violation." (There are exceptions to that statement, of course; but there's no reason to get into them with the coach at that point.)
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 11:33am
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Thanks for the replys. Is there any way ever that both could still be penalized? What if we determined the violation occured first? I am thinking along the lines of a little different sitch from mine where the violation happens and a second or 2 later the push happens. We would have a dead ball foul at that point. Could we have the same thing in my sitch? What if the push were excessive or deemed intentional? Would we punish both the violation and the foul? Did I make sense???
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 12:02pm
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If you determine that the violation occurred first, then you would disregard the contact unless it were intentional or flagrant. If you judge the contact to be severe enough to penalize, you would have to rule it a Technical foul.

In both NCAA and HS, you would shoot 2 FTs and then give the ball to the team that shot the FTs. The throw-in would be from midcourt.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 01:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
If you determine that the violation occurred first, then you would disregard the contact unless it were intentional or flagrant. If you judge the contact to be severe enough to penalize, you would have to rule it a Technical foul.

In both NCAA and HS, you would shoot 2 FTs and then give the ball to the team that shot the FTs. The throw-in would be from midcourt.
Why does the ball go to mid court for NCAA?
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:27pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by All_Heart
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
If you determine that the violation occurred first, then you would disregard the contact unless it were intentional or flagrant. If you judge the contact to be severe enough to penalize, you would have to rule it a Technical foul.

In both NCAA and HS, you would shoot 2 FTs and then give the ball to the team that shot the FTs. The throw-in would be from midcourt.
Why does the ball go to mid court for NCAA?
Because it's an intentional technical foul, so it goes to the midcourt instead of the spot of the foul as with an intentional personal foul or to the POI for most other technical fouls. (This is ncaa-m, I believe the ncaa-w rule might be different.)
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 10:50pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by All_Heart
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
If you determine that the violation occurred first, then you would disregard the contact unless it were intentional or flagrant. If you judge the contact to be severe enough to penalize, you would have to rule it a Technical foul.

In both NCAA and HS, you would shoot 2 FTs and then give the ball to the team that shot the FTs. The throw-in would be from midcourt.
Why does the ball go to mid court for NCAA?
Because it's an intentional technical foul, so it goes to the midcourt instead of the spot of the foul as with an intentional personal foul or to the POI for most other technical fouls. (This is ncaa-m, I believe the ncaa-w rule might be different.)
Thanks Dan!

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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 03:52am
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Quote:
Originally posted by MichiganOfficial
one of you had to know what whistle came first
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
The original post explicitly says that the whistles were at the same time.
Who cares when the whistle were blown? That doesn't matter at all, so why bother discussing it? According to Rules Fundamental 16 the ball is already dead when the foul or violation occurred.


Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
If we have a foul and a violation, we have to decide which one came first.
Correct, that is what you have to decide. Which ACTION occurred first, not which whistle sounded first.

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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 05:39am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
(This is ncaa-m, I believe the ncaa-w rule might be different.)
In NCAAW, there is no such thing as an "intentional technical foul." Contact while the ball is dead is penalized with either a direct or flagrant technical. For the direct T, the ball is put back in play at PoI. For the flagrant, we give the ball to the offended team at midcourt.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 08:52am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by MichiganOfficial
one of you had to know what whistle came first
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
The original post explicitly says that the whistles were at the same time.
Who cares when the whistle were blown? That doesn't matter at all, so why bother discussing it? According to Rules Fundamental 16 the ball is already dead when the foul or violation occurred.
Apparently, Michigan cared about the whistles. I only mentioned the whistles b/c he said one was first and the original post said they were simultaneous.
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