The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 08:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 521
Double Whistle Situation

I'm lead. A1 goes up for a shot in the lane. I blow the whistle because I see a foul on B1. My partner blows his whistle at the same time and immediately signals jump ball. The problem is that I've got my fist in the air.

How do I handle that?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 08:36pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
I'm lead. A1 goes up for a shot in the lane. I blow the whistle because I see a foul on B1. My partner blows his whistle at the same time and immediately signals jump ball. The problem is that I've got my fist in the air.

How do I handle that?
Get together and decide which happened first, and try to be aware of your partner's whistle so this won't happen again.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 08:47pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Which Happened First ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Get together and decide which happened first, and try to be aware of your partner's whistle so this won't happen again.
Use statements like, "I saw, and agree with your jump ball call, but I'm sure that my foul came first", or your partner may say, "I saw, and agree that that was a foul, but I'm sure that my jump ball came first". Without acknowledging that you saw each other's call, there's no way to tell which happened first.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 08:53pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Use statements like, "I saw, and agree with your jump ball call, but I'm sure that my foul came first", or your partner may say, "I saw, and agree that that was a foul, but I'm sure that my jump ball came first". Without acknowledging that you saw each other's call, there's no way to tell which happened first.
Sounds good to me. I originally typed "try to decide which came first" then left out the try. Right or wrong, in this situation the officials must decide which came first. There is no way to enforce both. ***




*** Where I come from, there's no such thing as a blarge. One of these things also happens before the other.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 09:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
You see foul/held ball from time to time, you also see foul/travel. Nobody has done anything wrong when this happens. You just have to decide which came first. Normally it's a "travel into the foul" and the partner with the travel can come out with "First" and the travel signal as it's fairly easy for the partner with the travel to see the sequence of events clearly. With the foul/held ball, you've got to get together and determine which happened first.

Not sure what's up with the admonition to "try to be aware of your partner's whistle so this won't happen again". You've both got a call, neither knows what the other has. Blow the whistle, get together and come to the right decision.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 09:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle View Post
You see foul/held ball from time to time, you also see foul/travel. Nobody has done anything wrong when this happens. You just have to decide which came first. Normally it's a "travel into the foul" .
Actually, what I see more often is, "the foul caused the travel". But then, maybe it depends on the different between JH girls, and varsity boys. wink, wink...
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 10:02pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle View Post

Not sure what's up with the admonition to "try to be aware of your partner's whistle so this won't happen again".
Often, not always, if two officials have a whistle, one can easily yield to the other before making conflicting signals.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 10:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juulie Downs View Post
Actually, what I see more often is, "the foul caused the travel". But then, maybe it depends on the different between JH girls, and varsity boys. wink, wink...
Fair enough. Though the foul usually is usually pretty obviously before, and a result of, the foul. I don't recall many double whistle on one of these where both officials don't have the foul.

But maybe I Just need to get out more.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 10:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Often, not always, if two officials have a whistle, one can easily yield to the other before making conflicting signals.
Okay, I can live with that. However, in this situation, if it's obvious that you have something very different than your partner, I don't think you should yield. Unless you are certain what your partner has came first. There is no shame in both of you coming out with something different, so long as you can quickly and smoothly resolve it.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 10:38pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
I'm lead. A1 goes up for a shot in the lane. I blow the whistle because I see a foul on B1. My partner blows his whistle at the same time and immediately signals jump ball. The problem is that I've got my fist in the air.

How do I handle that?
If you're positive the foul occurred first, look at your partner and say, "I got it!, ...fouled before the jump."

...Or, did the defender prevent the release [held ball] and then make incidental contact ?

There are a coupla options here.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 10:40pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,379
Upraised Open Hand?

Could this be one of the reasons the movement seems to be going toward closing down on a jump ball situation and stopping the clock with the whistle and an upraised open hand rather than going immediately to the "thumbs up"? Not sure.
I appreciate all the follow-ups responses to this thread so far.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2008, 11:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lincoln Co, Missouri
Posts: 823
This is covered precisely in...

case 2.6.B
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 25, 2008, 12:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
I haven't really noticed a "movement" on this. But closing down is a really good idea. Bad things can easily happen on a held ball, especially if the players are on the floor. Close down. Be vocal. Encourage the players to stop play. Make every effort to be very obviously "right there".
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 25, 2008, 01:29am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Sounds good to me. I originally typed "try to decide which came first" then left out the try. Right or wrong, in this situation the officials must decide which came first. There is no way to enforce both. ***


*** Where I come from, there's no such thing as a blarge. One of these things also happens before the other.
What happens in your area, when it's just one-on-one, A1 and B1, and two officials signal two different fouls: a block and a charge?

In this case, there is no "this happened first". It's the same contact. One official judged it to be a block. The other, a PC.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 25, 2008, 02:30am
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
What happens in your area, when it's just one-on-one, A1 and B1, and two officials signal two different fouls: a block and a charge?

In this case, there is no "this happened first". It's the same contact. One official judged it to be a block. The other, a PC.
One official yields to the judgment of the other. A signal does not a call make.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Double Whistle grunewar Basketball 3 Fri Dec 07, 2007 09:17am
Double whistle Ch1town Basketball 15 Fri Jul 20, 2007 09:42am
double whistle and 2 different calls... JohnBark Basketball 23 Thu Nov 02, 2006 07:51am
Different Double Whistle cmckenna Basketball 10 Tue Jan 24, 2006 08:52am
Double whistle - sitch mick Basketball 30 Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:18pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1