Foul Definition Help

[referee99]

Made the mistake of doing some reading of the rules book last night.

4-19

Art. 1... A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.

Note: Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.

The only situation where I can imagine a dead ball foul on an airborne shooter is on a dunk or maybe a tip, and the note suggests ignoring the contact unless flagrant or intentional.

Why d'ya suppose the 'or on' is included in the definition?

[Raymond]

A1 commences his/her shooting motion and gets hack on the arm by B2. Referee puts air in his/her whistle. After A1 releases the shot, but before returning to earth, he/she crashes into B3 who has LGP.

Nice explanation BNR. Out of curiosity, how would that sitch play out?

A1 is fouled by B2 but commits PC before landing...
If the try is (un)successful, wave off & shoot 2 FTs for B2s foul?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Nice explanation BNR. Out of curiosity, how would that sitch play out?

A1 is fouled by B2 but commits PC before landing...
If the try is (un)successful, wave off & shoot 2 FTs for B2s foul?

4.19.9 Situation A

Yes, this is a false double foul. You can't have a bucket due to the player control foul. No players along the lane and Team B will be awarded the ball following the last free throw. If the free throw is successful, the throw-in is from anywhere along the end line. If it's not, the throw-in is from a designated spot nearest the foul.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A1 commences his/her shooting motion and gets hack on the arm by B2. Referee puts air in his/her whistle. After A1 releases the shot, but before returning to earth, he/she crashes into B3 who has LGP.

.... shooter occurs while the ball is live. When A1 commits foul the ball is dead.

I'm asking why the rules book includes fouls 'ON' the airborne shooter (not 'by') when the ball is dead.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by referee99

Made the mistake of doing some reading of the rules book last night.

4-19

Art. 1... A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.

Note: Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.

The only situation where I can imagine a dead ball foul on an airborne shooter is on a dunk or maybe a tip, and the note suggests ignoring the contact unless flagrant or intentional.

Why d'ya suppose the 'or on' is included in the definition?

I think you're misreading the note part -- contact on an airborne shooter after the ball is dead (and, yes, it would likley be part of a dunk) does NOT need to be intentional or flagrant to be a foul

[referee99]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think you're misreading the note part -- contact on an airborne shooter after the ball is dead (and, yes, it would likley be part of a dunk) does NOT need to be intentional or flagrant to be a foul

Bob,

you are 100% correct.
ha, i had just crafted a 'no i'm not misunderstanding the note' reply... was just reading it before posting.... and my comprehender finally kicked in.

Dunker A1 (airborne shooter) throws down and is then fouled by B2:
Count the basket. A1 gets a free-throw. Even though A1 was fouled during a dead ball. Perfect.

tjones1 - Thanks for the touchback! I can't say that I've encountered that particular sitch in my young officiating career. Although I would've waved off the bucket, I doubt that I would've cleared the lane for the FTs. But it makes sense.

Now I own that play when/if it ever comes about. And I didn't even have to learn by making the mistake in a live game situation

I love this place!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by referee99

Bob,

you are 100% correct.
ha, i had just crafted a 'no i'm not misunderstanding the note' reply... was just reading it before posting.... and my comprehender finally kicked in.

Dunker A1 (airborne shooter) throws down and is then fouled by B2:
Count the basket. A1 gets a free-throw. Even though A1 was fouled during a dead ball. Perfect.

Here's another such situation:
Wrong ruling even back then!

[Spence]

Originally Posted by referee99

Made the mistake of doing some reading of the rules book last night.

4-19

Art. 1... A personal foul

Sidebar: What's the signal for a flagrant personal foul?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Spence

What's the signal for a flagrant personal foul?

I wish it was the "You're Outta Here" signal that baseball umpires use. But, unfortunately, it isn't.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Spence

Sidebar: What's the signal for a flagrant personal foul?

You inform the player to go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You inform the player to go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

No. Seriously. Is there a sign to indicate that it was flagrant and the subsequent ejection?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Spence

No. Seriously. Is there a sign to indicate that it was flagrant and the subsequent ejection?

No. The official simply reports that information to the table when reporting the foul and then notifies the Head Coach of the disqualification.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No. The official simply reports that information to the table when reporting the foul and then notifies the Head Coach of the disqualification.

Thanks