Foul Definition Help
 

Made the mistake of doing some reading of the rules book last night.

4-19

Art. 1... A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.

Note: Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.

The only situation where I can imagine a dead ball foul on an airborne shooter is on a dunk or maybe a tip, and the note suggests ignoring the contact unless flagrant or intentional.

Why d'ya suppose the 'or on' is included in the definition?

A1 commences his/her shooting motion and gets hack on the arm by B2. Referee puts air in his/her whistle. After A1 releases the shot, but before returning to earth, he/she crashes into B3 who has LGP.

I think you're misreading the note part -- contact on an airborne shooter after the ball is dead (and, yes, it would likley be part of a dunk) does NOT need to be intentional or flagrant to be a foul

Nice explanation BNR. Out of curiosity, how would that sitch play out?

A1 is fouled by B2 but commits PC before landing...
If the try is (un)successful, wave off & shoot 2 FTs for B2s foul?

4.19.9 Situation A

Yes, this is a false double foul. You can't have a bucket due to the player control foul. No players along the lane and Team B will be awarded the ball following the last free throw. If the free throw is successful, the throw-in is from anywhere along the end line. If it's not, the throw-in is from a designated spot nearest the foul.

In your sitch, the foul 'ON' the airborne..
 

.... shooter occurs while the ball is live. When A1 commits foul the ball is dead.

I'm asking why the rules book includes fouls 'ON' the airborne shooter (not 'by') when the ball is dead.

Lightbulb on!
 

Bob,

you are 100% correct.
ha, i had just crafted a 'no i'm not misunderstanding the note' reply... was just reading it before posting.... and my comprehender finally kicked in.

Dunker A1 (airborne shooter) throws down and is then fouled by B2:
Count the basket. A1 gets a free-throw. Even though A1 was fouled during a dead ball. Perfect.

tjones1 - Thanks for the touchback! I can't say that I've encountered that particular sitch in my young officiating career. Although I would've waved off the bucket, I doubt that I would've cleared the lane for the FTs. But it makes sense.

Now I own that play when/if it ever comes about. And I didn't even have to learn by making the mistake in a live game situation :D

I love this place!

Here's another such situation:
http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...back-then.html

Sidebar: What's the signal for a flagrant personal foul?

Bobby Cox Has Seen This Signal At Least 132 Times ...
 

I wish it was the "You're Outta Here" signal that baseball umpires use. But, unfortunately, it isn't.

You inform the player to go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

No. Seriously. Is there a sign to indicate that it was flagrant and the subsequent ejection?

No. The official simply reports that information to the table when reporting the foul and then notifies the Head Coach of the disqualification.

Thanks