Visible Count Mechanics

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by eyezen

I do not claim to know the rules on the women's side very well if at all, so I ask if you have no monitor and no visible count how would you fix an error? Guess?

Well, "guess" is pretty harsh, but essentially, yes. You go through the play and come up with the best approximation you can.

Example: Team B-52, Team A-51. 4.0 seconds remain.

A1 throws it into A2, who takes 3 dribbles, and passes to A3. A3 takes another two dribbles, shot fakes, goes up, and gets fouled in the act of shooting.

Clock still says 4.0. We are idiots and never realized the clock did not start.

NFHS ruling- shoot two with 4.0 on the clock.
NCAA-W ruling- determine how much time should have come off of the clock and adjust it accordingly. If it is more than 4.0 (and in this case it sounds like it probably was), game over. B wins. Drive home safely.

I can not speak for the NCAA-M ruling.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Fritz

When I first started, I counted all 10 seconds with individual arm movements - and did the same on my 5-second inbounds count.

That's also how I do it.

Then had a supervisor tell me that it looks stupid with my arm moving back and forth that fast and to switch to an out (1 second) and in (1 second) motion.

I can't imagine why anyone would suggest that. I suppose if it became the new NFHS mechanic, I would adjust; but it's not. So just count 1 swing per second, IMHO.

Yet when I go back to my old method and try not to move fast, I find my 10-second count is closer to 12-13.

13 is probably too slow. But I would rather be a little slow than a little fast. A few years ago at camp, a D1 assignor asked us to close our eyes and raise our hands when we reached a 10-second count. He said the results were anywhere from 8 seconds to about 13. He said he didn't like 13, but he liked it a lot better than 8.

And do you always start a 10-second visible count when the ball is in backcourt, or do you keep it in your head unless there is defensive pressure or you get to 6 or 7 and the ball hasn't crossed yet?

If there's no defensive pressure at all and it's obvious that the offense is going to push it to the frontcourt, then I might not have a count. Other than that, I always have a backcourt count.

In Massachusetts, we use a shot clock. It's not always run properly. But if you have a good shot clock operator, and you know that team control was established on the first touch after the throw-in, then the shot clock can be a big help with your 10-second count. Those are two very big "ifs", though.

[26 Year Gap]

I'm guessing your supervisor went on snipe hunts.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Then had a supervisor tell me that it looks stupid with my arm moving back and forth that fast

How far do you swing your arm? Do you move your upper arm, or just your lower arm?

Try moving just your lower arm, and move it "not as far" -- you can move it slower and still have each swing take a second.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I'm guessing your supervisor went on snipe hunts.

Beautiful!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Beautiful!

IIRC Frasier got the last laugh in that episode, though.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

How far do you swing your arm? Do you move your upper arm, or just your lower arm?

Try moving just your lower arm, and move it "not as far" -- you can move it slower and still have each swing take a second.

Elbow straight out, about shoulder level, and just the lower end of the arm going in and out, I do switch arms each time the ball passes to another player in backcourt. Can't remember who told me to do that, but it is a habit now.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Fritz

I do switch arms each time the ball passes to another player in backcourt. Can't remember who told me to do that, but it is a habit now.

I'd recommend against that. Switching arms generally indicates you've started your count over, such as when a dribbler crosses from backcourt to front court while closely guarded. There's no reason to switch arms while the ball is in the backcourt.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'd recommend against that. Switching arms generally indicates you've started your count over, such as when a dribbler crosses from backcourt to front court while closely guarded. There's no reason to switch arms while the ball is in the backcourt.

Anytime you have a new count you should switch arms. Using the same arm just causes confusion even if there are a few seconds between counts.

Peace

[Y2Koach]

The preferred arm swing motion in my area is to:
- use your right arm
- tuck your right hand firmly underneath your arm pit
- lower your elbow from a horizontal position downwards towards your hip to start the count
- raise your elbow back up to horizontal position to complete a full second
- at the count of ten, the officials are to blow their whistles multiple times while running to the center court line, waving both hands with all 10 fingers extended

Important point of emphasis for this rule and mechanic: Only call the violation until the last few possessions of a tight game. After that, you have to let the players decide the game. Also, make sure to call it both ways.

True story.

[Fritz]

thanks for the tips, most helpful!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Anytime you have a new count you should switch arms. Using the same arm just causes confusion even if there are a few seconds between counts.

Peace

Agreed, and that's how I do it. Fritz stated he switched arms when the ball changed players in the backcourt. You don't get a new count here, so you shouldn't switch arms.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

The preferred arm swing motion in my area is to:

Dangit, Koach, I started to take your post seriously and was about to respond to your first rule....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed, and that's how I do it. Fritz stated he switched arms when the ball changed players in the backcourt. You don't get a new count here, so you shouldn't switch arms.

Yeah, you are right. I was more responding to what you were saying, but now I see the context of your statements. The backcourt count would be the same count anyway, so you should not switch hands.

Peace

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Dangit, Koach, I started to take your post seriously and was about to respond to your first rule....

And I was waiting for him to add the part about if there are two or more players in backcourt, the left arm should come up as well so as to count along with the right arm...................