The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 12:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 126
Send a message via AIM to PAT THE REF
Visible Counts

It seems that most officials that I work with have a problem with my ten & five counts… It seems that they have a problem with counting an actual 10 seconds. No one is perfect, however, I believe that if 10 sec. on the clock elapses then it is 10 seconds b/c… They tell me that our count (their count) is the only one that applies. In which they count slower and makes it actually 14-15 seconds.
What would you do? Do you have a quick count (actual 10 sec) or slower count?
__________________
Pat The Ref
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 01:29am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Well the count of an official is actually the only thing we can go on as it relates to mechanics and rules. You should work on getting your count as close as possible, but as you said before no one is perfect. You also cannot go directly off the clock. The reality is the count does not always start with the start of the clock. So you cannot go directly by the clock with the count in the first place. I personally have practiced my count to be as close to the real time as possible. I even peek at the clock in certain situations to make sure I am on top of the real time. But if I am a little fast on the count or a little slow, my count is the only count that matters.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 03:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,674
That is what microwave popcorn is for.

Stick it in, work on your counts, and reward yourself for your accuracy.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 07:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,105
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
I would rather an official be a little too slow with counting than a little too fast. But I also would rather not see an official's 10-second count take 15 seconds. That's way too slow in my book.

I've been reffing for 14 years now and I still practice my count with the microwave. But usually, I use the shot clock to keep it. As Rut said, the 10-second count may not always start at the same time that the shot clock starts; but it usually does. So if I know the ball was controlled at the first touch, and I know the shot clock started properly, then I have a 10-second violation when the shot clock hits 25 (or 20, if you're using women's rules). And yes, I still do actually count, but when I get to about 8, I look at the clock to see how close I actually am.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 08:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 5,687
Thank you mick.

But don't blame Chuck. He's been busy setting up his shoe company so he can take care of all his reffing buddies.

Just don't post the link here, ok?
__________________
M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department.

(Used with permission.)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 09:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,105
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
Chuck,
When did they add the 10 second count for women?
mick
Good point, mick. In MA, we use a 30-second shot clock for HS. But I knew that it wasn't a FED rule and that the 30-second shot clock was a NCAAW rule. So I confused myself into that dumb comment. Good catch.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 11:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
If you don't work with a shot clock, you can still use the game clock to your advantage. Microwave ovens are fine, but my hot air popper makes better popcorn. And practicing my count with the game clock helps me develop a better feel for what a second feels like during play. When I'm trailing the play in transition, and there's nothing interesting happening (rec. games are really good for this), I check the speed of my count against the game clock.

One problem I have, and I've seen many other officials exhibit the same behavior, is that the speed of my count is affected by my gait (e.g., walking upcourt produces a slower count than running) and by the intensity of the action (e.g., my count tends to slow when there is heavy defensive pressure). Checking my count as I come up the floor at different speeds has helped me to reduce the "drift" in my count. Obviously I can't be watching the clock during intense play, however the awareness that I count slower in intense situations has helped me lessen the effect.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 11:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 547
Summer camps, summer league games, and other out-of-season games are the perfect time to work on mechanical changes that you deem necessary. Your :10 counts; increasing your game awarness (AP, bonus, player foul count,etc.); and officiating with your off-hand (foul signal, table reporting, OOB directions, etc.) are all perfect examples of what you should use this time for.

While I use the shot clock/game clock as a basis, I will always use my personal count to determine if a violation has occurred. If I get into a game situation that, based on the clock, seems to warrant a :10 violation - then I'm simply working on my "communication skills w/ the coach"....better to have it happen and learn how to deal with it in the summer than in the biggest game of the season.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 13, 2006, 12:02pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
...the speed of my count is affected by my gait (e.g., walking upcourt produces a slower count than running) and by the intensity of the action (e.g., my count tends to slow when there is heavy defensive pressure).
Good job , Back In The Saddle !
Recognizing that variance is the most important step toward a solution to the problem.

Yet, I have a similar, but unrelated problem:
  • While driving down a highway and the Temptations come on the radio, how do I keep my right foot from going down?
mick
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Coolest Visible Count ref18 Basketball 23 Fri Mar 25, 2005 04:45pm
The Big "X"... And It Counts!!! isneths Basketball 11 Wed Jul 14, 2004 04:35am
VISIBLE 5 SECOND COUNT johnfox Basketball 15 Tue Jan 28, 2003 08:12am
counts? Troward Basketball 12 Fri Nov 22, 2002 05:32pm
visible counts Matt S. Basketball 14 Wed Nov 15, 2000 01:07pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1