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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 08:29am
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Off Topic: Rules Question

I hate to bring up a real basketball / officiating question, so I apologize in advance for bringing an off-topic discussion to this forum:

Play: FED rules. A scores a basket with 4.8 seconds remaining. The score is now B:46, A:44. Team A is out of time-outs. Player B1 (stupidly) grabs the ball as it falls through the basket and throws the ball: (a) high in the air, (b) to the other end of the court, (c) out of bounds under A's basket and away from the court.

Ruling:??

(Is there any penalty / delay warning to B? When (if ever) does the ball become live (what if A "fouls" during this sequence)?)
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 08:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Play: FED rules. A scores a basket with 4.8 seconds remaining. The score is now B:46, A:44. Team A is out of time-outs. Player B1 (stupidly) grabs the ball as it falls through the basket and throws the ball: (a) high in the air, (b) to the other end of the court, (c) out of bounds under A's basket and away from the court.

Ruling:??

(Is there any penalty / delay warning to B? When (if ever) does the ball become live (what if A "fouls" during this sequence)?)
The penalty to B is an immediate throw-in violation if B never stepped out of bounds.

Did you mean to say that A1 grabs the ball and throws it? In that case, it's strictly the official's judgment. If it was intentional, you charge A1 with a technical and put the consumed time back on the clock. If it was simple confusion, you put the time back on the clock and let B run the endline for their normal throw-in.
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
I hate to bring up a real basketball / officiating question, so I apologize in advance for bringing an off-topic discussion to this forum:

Play: FED rules. A scores a basket with 4.8 seconds remaining. The score is now B:46, A:44. Team A is out of time-outs. Player B1 (stupidly) grabs the ball as it falls through the basket and throws the ball: (a) high in the air, (b) to the other end of the court, (c) out of bounds under A's basket and away from the court.

Ruling:??

(Is there any penalty / delay warning to B? When (if ever) does the ball become live (what if A "fouls" during this sequence)?)
B) could be interpreted as a throw-in violation

C) I would start the 5-second count

A) I need to mull that one over a little bit
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Play: FED rules. A scores a basket with 4.8 seconds remaining. The score is now B:46, A:44. Team A is out of time-outs. Player B1 (stupidly) grabs the ball as it falls through the basket and throws the ball: (a) high in the air, (b) to the other end of the court, (c) out of bounds under A's basket and away from the court.

Ruling:??
Throw-in violation by B1 if the sitch is written correctly above.

Can you elucidate, Robert?
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:28am
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If it's B1, and he never stepped OOB, immediate throwin violation (under the same case play that sticks them when they just start dribbling). Ball to A under the basket.

If it's A1, let the clock run.
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Throw-in violation by B1 if the sitch is written correctly above.

Can you elucidate, Robert?
For Snaqwells this means JR doesn't really get the question.
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Throw-in violation by B1 if the sitch is written correctly above.

Can you elucidate, Robert?
The situation is written correctly. The team that's ahead grabs the ball (rather than just let time expire). In each case, it's clear that the intent is to "waste time" (even though it's not needed) -- even in case B, there's no way to "interpret" the throw as a throw-in pass (no other B players are at or heading to the other end of the court).
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
For Snaqwells this means JR doesn't really get the question.
Why is it that every time there's a discussion, it has to get personal?

Try to stay on topic, peanutgallery boy.
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Why is it that every time there's a discussion, it has to get personal?

Try to stay on topic, peanutgallery boy.
Don't you have to go scrape the barnacles off your canoe?
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
The situation is written correctly. The team that's ahead grabs the ball (rather than just let time expire). In each case, it's clear that the intent is to "waste time" (even though it's not needed) -- even in case B, there's no way to "interpret" the throw as a throw-in pass (no other B players are at or heading to the other end of the court).
I'd start the 5-second count when B1 grabbed the ball, with the rationale that it's at his disposal at that time. Then just let the clock run out.

Team B isn't gaining any advantage through the dumb play of B1.

Jmo....
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 09:48am
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why start the 5 second count -- there is less than that amount of time on the clock and the clock is not stopped.
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 10:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
For Snaqwells this means JR doesn't really get the question.
This is just gratuitously mean. My feelings might be hurt; I'll have to check.
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 10:13am
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Originally Posted by deecee
why start the 5 second count -- there is less than that amount of time on the clock and the clock is not stopped.
Because:
(a) you're probably gonna need an explanation for your actions post-game for somebody...and it's easier to explain the situation if everybody has seen a visual count.
(b) if you're decide you're going to follow the course of action I suggested, proper mechanics have you showing the visual count.
(c) You look like you actually might have a clue as to what you're doing if you show an immediate visual count.
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 10:25am
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In A and C, I'm going to have a 5 second count going, and I'm going to let the clock run out. In B, technically this could be a throw-in violation, but unless it looks an awful lot like he was trying to initiate a play, I'm going to go with the 5 second count and let the clock run out.

And yes, I will be counting, because an awful lot of people will be looking at me as soon as B1 throws the ball to see what I'm going to "do about this." I want it to be entirely obvious what I'm going to do.
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Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 12:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Because:
(a) you're probably gonna need an explanation for your actions post-game for somebody...and it's easier to explain the situation if everybody has seen a visual count.
(b) if you're decide you're going to follow the course of action I suggested, proper mechanics have you showing the visual count.
(c) You look like you actually might have a clue as to what you're doing if you show an immediate visual count.
If you glanced at the clock and know that there is less than 5 seconds remaining, I see no need to start a count. I would explain this to anyone who questioned it postgame.

If a team scores with 7 seconds remaining in any period, do you begin a 10 second count once the ball has been inbounded?
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