Slapping the backboard

[rbruno]

Gentlemen

AAU Tourney yesterday 16U. Good game. Player A-1 drives to the hoop.
Gets fouled in the act and my partner (lead) calls the foul. Ball goes in... although neither of us sees it go in. I know .. its my call as trail. I'm preoccupied with Player B-1 who slaps the backboard pretty hard after the shot.
I lost sight of the ball cause I was trying to quickly decide if I should "T" him up for the hard slap. I didn't call it a tech for slapping, but now I don't know if the ball went in or not.
Everyone in the gym must have seen the ball go in . I check with my partner and tell him "I didn't see it go in, but that I had lost sight. I thought if I didn't know it went in then we can't call it so.
Two questions on the rulings. We eventually checked with the table (They said it went in) and ruled a made basket with one free throw.
If I had blown the technical for slapping the backboard ..... do we still count the hoop with the foul?? How do you rule this mess?

[just another ref]

The two calls have nothing to do with each other. If the player is fouled in the act and the ball goes in, the basket counts. Sure, that's on your list of things to watch, and you should have actually seen the ball go in, but since you didn't, checking with the table is acceptable. The T for the backboard slap is what it is. If the player deliberately slaps the board, and the slap was not part of a legitimate block attempt, it is a technical foul. You either call it or choose to ignore it, which probably happens more often than it should.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by rbruno

Gentlemen

AAU Tourney yesterday 16U. Good game. Player A-1 drives to the hoop.
Gets fouled in the act and my partner (lead) calls the foul. Ball goes in... although neither of us sees it go in. I know .. its my call as trail. I'm preoccupied with Player B-1 who slaps the backboard pretty hard after the shot.
I lost sight of the ball cause I was trying to quickly decide if I should "T" him up for the hard slap. I didn't call it a tech for slapping, but now I don't know if the ball went in or not.
Everyone in the gym must have seen the ball go in . I check with my partner and tell him "I didn't see it go in, but that I had lost sight. I thought if I didn't know it went in then we can't call it so.
Two questions on the rulings. We eventually checked with the table (They said it went in) and ruled a made basket with one free throw.
If I had blown the technical for slapping the backboard ..... do we still count the hoop with the foul?? How do you rule this mess?

1. If the slapping of the backboard was an attempt to block the shot. I would have ignored the slapping. No T.

2. Nothing wrong with asking the table if neither of you saw the ball pass through the basket from above.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Nothing wrong with asking the table if neither of you saw the ball pass through the basket from above.

Similar problem. Girls varsity. As the trail, I was watching something on the floor, not what I was supposed to be watching at the basket level, and may have missed something. Three point shot attempt hits the ring, and bounces high into the air off the ring. Two players had been doing a little extra pushing during the game, so, as the trail, I decided to take a peak at them, to see if a foul should be called, and whom to call it on. Next thing to happen, is that the ball goes in. I signal a three. Coach complains that the ball hit an overhead wire, before going in. My partner can't help me, because he was keeping his eyes focused on the rebounders on the floor, which is what he's supposed to be doing. I could tell by the coach's tone, and the reaction of the players, and the fans, that the ball probably touched the wire. Could I have gone to the table for help? Any applicable rule, or case book, citations, please?

[BillyMac]

Slapping the backboard is neither basket interference nor is it goaltending and points cannot be awarded. A player who strikes a backboard so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul. When a player simply attempts to block a shot and accidentally slaps the backboard it is neither a violation nor is it a technical foul.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Could I have gone to the table for help? Any applicable rule, or case book, citations, please?

Excellent question, honestly, I could probaly argue R 2-11-11. However, that is stretching it a bit. I could argue 2-13.3 that deals with timing mistakes. (does not apply in the situation). So, the only half legitimate stance I may present is Good Judgement of the personnel at the table.. I would go to table for assistance "IF" and only "IF" me or my partner missed a call. Something like the ball touching the wire will not be one of them.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Girls varsity. As the trail, I was watching something on the floor

Did you get her number? HAHA - double pun!

[Brad]

Ignore the slap and concentrate on the ball going in

This is almost never a technical foul and too many officials get caught up with this rule. The rule is intended to address unsportsmanlike conduct for slapping the backboard out of frustration, not hitting the backboard in an attempt to block a shot (even if you *know* that the player has no real chance of blocking it -- he might think he does!)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Brad

Ignore the slap and concentrate on the ball going in

This is almost never a technical foul and too many officials get caught up with this rule. The rule is intended to address unsportsmanlike conduct for slapping the backboard out of frustration, not hitting the backboard in an attempt to block a shot (even if you *know* that the player has no real chance of blocking it -- he might think he does!)

Sorry, Brad, I know that it's your board, but I have to disagree. The first thing upon which to focus is the possible unsporting behavior. Taking care of the conduct of the players is primary. A simple basket is not going to be that much of a problem. You can always get some help from a partner or the table crew on that. Plus, I would think that most of the players would honestly tell you whether or not the ball went in.

Officials aren't paid to watch baskets, they are there to make the tough decisions. Technical fouls for slapping the backboard is definitely in that category. In fact, the NFHS has made this a POE for the upcoming season.

2008-09 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
...
4. SLAPPING THE BACKBOARD. The incidents of players slapping the backboard are increasing throughout the country. The rules specify that "intentionally slapping or striking the backboard" is a technical foul (10-3-5). The spirit and intent of that rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to him/herself or as a means of venting frustration. A player who strikes the backboard in a legitimate attempt to block a try for goal should not be penalized. Basket interference cannot be ruled in either of the above situations. Basket interference only occurs if the ball is interfered with while in the cylinder above the basket ring or by touching either the ball or any part of the basket while the ball is on or within the basket (4-6).

[Brad]

The spirit and intent of that rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to him/herself or as a means of venting frustration.

I've never seen a player do this and in the cases where I have seen a technical called by officials the player was not "drawing attention to him/herself or as a means of venting frustration".

Not knowing whether a basket was good or not because you were focusing on whether or not to assess a technical foul for slapping the backboard is inexcusable. These types of technicals call themselves. If you have to think about whether or not the slap merits a technical foul or not, it doesn't.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Brad

The spirit and intent of that rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to him/herself or as a means of venting frustration.

I've never seen a player do this and in the cases where I have seen a technical called by officials the player was not "drawing attention to him/herself or as a means of venting frustration".

Not knowing whether a basket was good or not because you were focusing on whether or not to assess a technical foul for slapping the backboard is inexcusable. These types of technicals call themselves. If you have to think about whether or not the slap merits a technical foul or not, it doesn't.

I have....and the subsequent "T" called was well deserved.

Having said that, fwiw I agree completely with everything else that you said.

Personally, I wonder if the FED put in that POE because of all the officials that wrongfully insist that a backboard whack can also be BI. Lord knows that we get enough of 'em on this forum every year.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Brad

Not knowing whether a basket was good or not because you were focusing on whether or not to assess a technical foul for slapping the backboard is inexcusable. These types of technicals call themselves. If you have to think about whether or not the slap merits a technical foul or not, it doesn't.

Absolutely agree. And while it may be easy (and embarrassing IMO) to ask the table whether the ball went in you can't ask them if you missed BI/GT on the shot after the foul.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Absolutely agree. And while it may be easy (and embarrassing IMO) to ask the table whether the ball went in you can't ask them if you missed BI/GT on the shot after the foul.

And, you can more easily see / rule on the slap out of the corner of your eye / by using your ears than you can rule on the basket or BI/GT.

Focus on what you need to focus on; get the rest by "feel."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Focus on what you need to focus on; get the rest by "feel."

Helpful advise when officiating the annual Hugh Hefner Playboy Bunnies for Charity basketball game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Helpful advise when officiating the annual Hugh Hefner Playboy Bunnies for Charity basketball game.

Charity?

Would that be "Implants For Needy Centerfolds"?

I think I saw the telethon. Four times. To date.