AP question

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Word.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

There's a chance I'm missing something here... and I probably am.

but I've got it's out of bounds and it's B's ball, and the throwin did end when it was legally touched inbounds by B, which happened immediately prior (split second) to the out of bounds.

Yup, you're missing case book play 6.4.5SitB as already cited.

Where you're getting screwed up is in the definition of a throw-in. Take a look at rules 4-42-4&5. To have a throw-in, the ball must be released by the thrower directly into the court. Article 5 also says that the the throw-in ends when the passed ball touches or is legally touched by another player. In the play being discussed, the ball was NEVER released or passed. Ergo....the throw-in never ended.

Make sense now?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by tjones1

You're full of it too!

I can't break that habit.......always kick that.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Full, your full of it........

7.6.4 SITUATION F: Thrower A1 inadvertently holds the ball through the end-line plane during a throw-in. B1 is able to get his/her hands on the ball and A1 cannot pull it back. RULING: There is no player or team control during a throw in, therefore a held ball is called, resulting in an alternating-possession throw-in. If the original throw-in is an alternating-possession throw-in, Team A still has the arrow following the held ball.

The wording of this play indicates a jumpball whether B1 cleanly takes the ball from A1 or not. Am I reading this correctly, is it always a jump ball? Or can B1 take the ball away from A1 with no jump ball.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

The wording of this play indicates a jumpball whether B1 cleanly takes the ball from A1 or not. Am I reading this correctly, is it always a jump ball? Or can B1 take the ball away from A1 with no jump ball.

Of course B1 can take the ball away.

[Adam]

Okay, if the throwin doesn't end until the "passed" ball is touched on the court….
AP throwin.
B1 grabs ball and immediately pulls it away from A1; no held ball call. Switch the arrow?

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Of course B1 can take the ball away.

I agree with you, but the case play does not seem to allow for it. If Bb1 gets hands on ball and A1 can't pull it back then jumpball.
That very scenario takes place when B1 takes the ball from A1.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I agree with you, but the case play does not seem to allow for it. If Bb1 gets hands on ball and A1 can't pull it back then jumpball.
That very scenario takes place when B1 takes the ball from A1.

I have seen a case where the player out of bounds making the throw in, places his hand out in front of him, inbounds, palm up so that the ball is simply resting in his hand. If the defensive player then slaps the ball out of his hand, that wouldn't possibly be a held ball, would it?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I agree with you, but the case play does not seem to allow for it. If Bb1 gets hands on ball and A1 can't pull it back then jumpball.
That very scenario takes place when B1 takes the ball from A1.

Unless B1 just yanks it away from A1 suddenly, and hustles away. In that case, the throw-in ends legally.

Also, what Smitty says is correct.

And BTW, if A2 removes the ball from A1's hand in any of these ways, it's illegal.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I have seen a case where the player out of bounds making the throw in, places his hand out in front of him, inbounds, palm up so that the ball is simply resting in his hand. If the defensive player then slaps the ball out of his hand, that wouldn't possibly be a held ball, would it?

Not in my judgement. I presume you are not wanting me to be your definitive source, what does the rule/case play tell you?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Not in my judgement. I presume you are not wanting me to be your definitive source, what does the rule/case play tell you?

I think the question was Socratic/rhetorical.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Unless B1 just yanks it away from A1 suddenly, and hustles away. In that case, the throw-in ends legally.

How does the throwin end?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How does the throwin end?

Ball is touched legally in-bounds.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Not in my judgement. I presume you are not wanting me to be your definitive source, what does the rule/case play tell you?

I was simply refuting your claim that by definition taking the ball away from the inbounder when they hold it on the inbounds side of the line is always a held ball. I am assuming, based on the previous rule citation, even though the ball is slapped out of the inbounder's hand and play goes on from there, the arrow is not reversed because the thrower never released the ball, and therefore the throw-in never ended. Seems weird, but that's how it seems to play out.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Ball is touched legally in-bounds.

But it was never passed. Definition states a passed ball has to be touched for the throwin to end.