Fan abuse to player

[TimTaylor]

For me, the line is definitely crossed when the fans single out a specific player by name or number. At that point you have game management tell them to knock it off or they're gone. Just my $0.02.

In the instance described I think game management did the right thing by tossing the student section - just too bad it escalated to the point where an object was thrown first.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

V player had attended home school at some point and was definitely the flash point for the fan yelling and chivying.

Ya know, it's not often you see the word "chivying" in print. What are you trying to do, Juulie, out-vocabularise me?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

What I'm trying to come to grips with is razzing a player, constantly booing a player or holding up signs considered fan abuse? Take out profanity or vulgarity, should a high school player be subjected to constant razzing? Picture the kind of stuff the Dukies do when they target a particular player. Would you stop this kind of behavior in a high school game?

If the student section does get the player's goat and he responds "mildly" by screaming back, laughing, pointing or shaking his head, ec., would you penalize the player? Is the player expected to ignore any comments from the stands?

Mulk, strictly my opinion......at the high school varsity level, it is a part of the game, and has been as long as I've been around. At lower levels, yes, there might be a case for doing something about razzing. At high school varsity and above, players should have learned by then how to deal with it. The whole idea in the first place is for the fans to get the player's goat and maybe throw him off his game. I think that what you did in your game--telling the player to play ball and ignore the fans- is the best way to handle it. Of course, if the razzing gets into profanity, gross vulgarity, racial crap or anything like like that, you should deal with it. And dealing with it usually means going to game management and saying "We have a problem. You take care of it."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Ya know, it's not often you see the word "chivying" in print. What are you trying to do, Juulie, out-vocabularise me?

Is that Yiddish?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Is that Yiddish?

From Dictionary.com

[Variant of chevy, a hunt, hunting cry, from Chevy Chase, title of a ballad about a border skirmish, from Cheviot Chase, a large unenclosed hunting tract in the Cheviot Hills.]

Sounds pretty English.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

From Dictionary.com

[Variant of chevy, a hunt, hunting cry, from Chevy Chase, title of a ballad about a border skirmish, from Cheviot Chase, a large unenclosed hunting tract in the Cheviot Hills.]

Sounds pretty English.

I see. So it came from Caddy Shack. I get it.

[mbyron]

"I'm Chevy Chase, and you're not."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

While this is allowed, I'm not sure it should be used in the OP's case. ronny did not see the specific person who threw the bottle. The player confronted who he thought threw the bottle. So, I'm not sure guessing on this call is the right thing to do, especially since the Fed. mentions it is also a call we should use discretion in making.

"bottle comes out of the student section and hits #23 in the head."

Don't misunderstand my opinion on this one. In 12 years of HS officiating, I have never charged a technical foul to a spectator or member of the crowd. This is one case in which I would have done so. Here you have a thrown object that clearly comes from the student section of the home school, which doesn't just come onto the floor or come near a player or official, but actually strikes a GUEST player in the head! What type of action are you waiting to see before you assess a technical foul? Do you want someone to come out of the stands and assault a visiting player?

The fact is that the action which took place was clearly egregious and no way to treat the GUESTS from the other school. Please remember that this is HS athletics. Notice that I called the visitors the guests. That is what they are and how they should be treated.

In fact, if the game management had not escorted all of the students out, I would not have continued the game. If there is any question about the safety of the student-athletes and officials when taking the floor, then we are not going to play.

It also seems from the logic expressed in your opinion that you would disagree with removing all of the students because the individual who threw the bottle wasn't seen and couldn't be clearly identified. Do you think that it is unjust to remove all of the students in the crowd? Aren't they guessing on the removal and shouldn't they be using more discretion lest they unfairly punish someone? That's the crux of your statement, right?

[Adam]

I don't see a T here, but I certainly see the logic in having them all removed. Especially because the perpetrator wasn't easily identifiable.

Eject them all and let God sort them out.

Game management seems to have been on top of it, so I don't know that a T was in order.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't see a T here, but I certainly see the logic in having them all removed. Especially because the perpetrator wasn't easily identifiable.

Eject them all and let God sort them out.

Game management seems to have been on top of it, so I don't know that a T was in order.

Adam,
Please humor me by stating under what conditions you would charge a T against a spectator or the crowd? I'm just curious.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It also seems from the logic expressed in your opinion that you would disagree with removing all of the students because the individual who threw the bottle wasn't seen and couldn't be clearly identified. Do you think that it is unjust to remove all of the students in the crowd? Aren't they guessing on the removal and shouldn't they be using more discretion lest they unfairly punish someone? That's the crux of your statement, right?

Nevada, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but as you've probably surmised, the weather around here has been fun.

To answer your question, I would be in favor of management handling the problem, with our help. If, together, we determine the whole student section needs to be thrown out, so be it. If the idiot who threw the bottle fesses up, they should be thrown out. I was only responding to your original comment:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that the following is likely a minority opinion, but I would have penalized the home team for the thrown bottle.

Team technical foul against the home team.

I just wouldn't be so quick to penalize the team just because we're "pretty sure" the bottle came from one of their followers. Yep, the bottle came from the student section, but are you positive it wasn't actually thrown by a cousin of one of the students who happened to come along and is not even a student at that school?

My point is the T is a weapon in our arsenal, but even the Fed says it should be used with discretion. I wouldn't use it in this particular instance. If we need game management's help to clear the entire gym, let's do it. But let's also be careful about penalizing the team for actions off the court and outside the game.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I"m just wondering if you could have game management address the crowd earlier, without tossing them. It might also depend on the level of play. At varsity, with two relatively good teams, or where the winning team is taking the harassment, I'd be inclined to let a lot more go. But if there really is some emotional damage being done, I'd be tempted to nip it in the bud.

edited to add: looking back at OP, sounds like you handled it just about right. V team way ahead, player getting harassed is managed, game management stepped in when boundaries were crossed.

Juulie, in Georgia, it is required that the following statement be read before every GHSA sanctioned game:

“The GHSA and its member schools have made a commitment to promote good sportsmanship by student/athletes, coaches, and spectators at all GHSA sanctioned events. Profanity, degrading remarks, and intimidating actions directed at officials or competitors will not be tolerated, and are grounds for removal from the event site. Spectators are not allowed to enter the competition area during warm-ups or while the contest is being conducted. Thank you for your cooperation in the promotion of good sportsmanship at today’s event.”

Now, #23 you're horrible is a far cry form degrading and intimidating, but if it escalates, that is their warning. After that, the official can direct game management to remove any jacka$$ from the gym.