Odd out of bounds plays?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Actually, that is a separate rules violation: 9-2-11: No teammate of the thrower shall be out of bounds after a designated-spot throw-in begins.

gotcha, thanks...so in reality we have two rules to accomplish what one rule could have done? trying to think of a situation where there is a live ball not inbounds, teammate of thrower is out of bounds and you don't have a violation? other than following a made basket...??

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

when somebody calls what, a violation for leaving for an unauthorized reason?? i have called this a ton of times, although i don't think i have ever seen two players out of bounds on a sideline throw-in...not sure why they would do this?

what do you mean the inbounder couldn't be OOB on the sideline? where else would they be??

You have called leaving the court for an unauthorized reason a ton of times? Really? I don't think I've ever called it.

As to the inbounder on the sideline - we were talking about a violation on a player for being OOB other than on the end-line during a non-designated end-line throw-in.

If a teammate is OOB during a designated-spot throw-in, it's a violation under 9-2-11 which applies directly to designated-spot throw-ins.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by kbilla

in bounds? i thought it only needed to be a live ball situation...if it needed to be in bounds then we would not have a violation during a spot throw in when a teammate is out of bounds...which we do i believe?

My point was only that the violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason should not be different whether the ball is being inbounded or if it's already in play in bounds. The criteria are the same.

IOW, if they do something you wouldn't call during regular play, you shouldn't call it during a throwin since the rules are the same. (except for the throwin provisions).

[kbilla]

[QUOTE=jdw3018]You have called leaving the court for an unauthorized reason a ton of times? Really? I don't think I've ever called it.

absolutely, most common situation is where you have a screen near the end line and offensive player runs around it out of bounds....doesn't happen every game by any stretch, but a couple of times each season....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by kbilla

gotcha, thanks...so in reality we have two rules to accomplish what one rule could have done? trying to think of a situation where there is a live ball not inbounds, teammate of thrower is out of bounds and you don't have a violation? other than following a made basket...??

9-2-11 essentially says there is no authorized reason to be out of bounds during a spot throwin unless you're the thrower.
The other rule allows for "authorized reason."

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

gotcha, thanks...so in reality we have two rules to accomplish what one rule could have done? trying to think of a situation where there is a live ball not inbounds, teammate of thrower is out of bounds and you don't have a violation? other than following a made basket...??

Well, if we're going to apply 9-3-3 A Player shall not leave the floor for an unauthorized reason, we would have to agree that just stepping on the line is a leaving the floor without authorization. I don't agree with that definition.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

My point was only that the violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason should not be different whether the ball is being inbounded or if it's already in play in bounds. The criteria are the same.

IOW, if they do something you wouldn't call during regular play, you shouldn't call it during a throwin since the rules are the same. (except for the throwin provisions).

Agree with you, seems like there are two rules when one would suffice..

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

absolutely, most common situation is where you have a screen near the end line and offensive player runs around it out of bounds....doesn't happen every game by any stretch, but a couple of times each season....

I guess I just haven't had that in my games...screens generally aren't that low in Kansas!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Agree with you, seems like there are two rules when one would suffice..

I disagree.
During an end-line throwin, only one of these rules is in effect.
During a spot throwin, there is no authorized reason for a teammate of the thrower to be out of bounds. Restrictions are tighter then, IMO.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Agree with you, seems like there are two rules when one would suffice..

Would you apply 9-3-3 if, during a play, A2 is makes a cut near the sideline and his foot touches the sideline? Is that leaving the court for an unauthorized reason?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I disagree.
During an end-line throwin, only one of these rules is in effect.
During a spot throwin, there is no authorized reason for a teammate of the thrower to be out of bounds. Restrictions are tighter then, IMO.

Right, but all you would need is one rule with an exception....no leaving for an unauthorized reason during a live ball EXCEPT a teammate of a thrower during an end line throw-in following a made basket....we get to the same place...

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Would you apply 9-3-3 if, during a play, A2 is makes a cut near the sideline and his foot touches the sideline? Is that leaving the court for an unauthorized reason?

Technically yes, in reality no f'ing way. There has to be some advantage gained to that player going out of bounds before I will call it....or it has to be so blatantly obvious that I have no choice..

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Right, but all you would need is one rule with an exception....no leaving for an unauthorized reason during a live ball EXCEPT a teammate of a thrower during an end line throw-in following a made basket....we get to the same place...

That exception doesn't need to be there, because the teammate of the thrower is leaving the court for an authorized reason.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

That exception doesn't need to be there, because the teammate of the thrower is leaving the court for an authorized reason.

He is authorized in that case??

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Technically yes, in reality no f'ing way. There has to be some advantage gained to that player going out of bounds before I will call it....or it has to be so blatantly obvious that I have no choice..

I guess I don't agree with your definition.

To me, "leaving the court" and "being OOB" are two different things. To be OOB is to touch the boundary in any way. To "leave the court" is much more a judgement call, IMO. That's why I see a need for both 9-2-11 and 9-3-3. A teammate touching OOB at all during a throw-in is a violation. In other live-ball cases, in my judgement, it's not necessarily a violation.