When to stop closely guarded count?

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Not from what I can find in the 2006/2007 nfhs book in both rule 4 & rule 9 and case plays.

I guess you'll post your rule later.

If someone else doesnt post the reference; I will after scrimmages tonight.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Not from what I can find in the 2006/2007 nfhs book in both rule 4 & rule 9 and case plays.

I guess you'll post your rule later.

Naw, I'll post it now.NFHS rule 4-10.

Rookies.....

[jer166]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Regarding closely guarded...

the distance from the freethrow line to the top of the key is 4'9", correct?

The radius of the free throw semi-circle is 6 feet 1-6

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Regarding closely guarded...

and closely guarded count starts when the front foot of the ball handler and the front foot of the defender are within 6', correct?

correct per 4-10

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

I was just wondering if why in my head there seemed to be a discrepancy with the freethrow circle. the freethrow line is 15', top of the key is 19' 9", are they measured from different points (baseline versus basket, or vice versa)?

The free throw line is measured from the plane of the face of the backboard 1-6

The three point line is measured from the center of the basket 1-4-1

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Also, I remember reading in this years rules/case book something about the front foot of each player being within 6', I will try to find the reference when i get to my book when I get home tonight. If someone else can help, I would appreciate it.

The count begins when the player in control of the ball is continously guarded by a player who is within six-feet...the measurement is from front/forward foot/feet of the defender to front/forward foot/feet of the ball handler...4-10

[Y2Koach]

Originally Posted by jer166

The free throw line is measured from the plane of the face of the backboard 1-6

The three point line is measured from the center of the basket 1-4-1

Thanks, I knew my math was off somewhere and im sitting at work going crazy trying to figure out how I was off by 1' 3".

Either way, that distance of 6' should be close enough to start counting, regardless of "pressure applied" to the ball handler.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Thanks, I knew my math was off somewhere and im sitting at work going crazy trying to figure out how I was off by 1' 3".

Either way, that distance of 6' should be close enough to start counting, regardless of "pressure applied" to the ball handler.

weeeeeellllll, if the defender is just standing there chomping gum and not actively guarding the dribbler, I dont have a count at 6-foot. Such as when the offense comes into their front court and the D is in a zone. If the D is actively engaging the dribbler I will count.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Splute

weeeeeellllll, if the defender is just standing there chomping gum and not actively guarding the dribbler, I dont have a count at 6-foot. Such as when the offense comes into their front court and the D is in a zone. If the D is actively engaging the dribbler I will count.

Hmmm. Is there a rule basis for this? Sounds like a Kansas thing.

[Y2Koach]

Originally Posted by Splute

weeeeeellllll, if the defender is just standing there chomping gum and not actively guarding the dribbler, I dont have a count at 6-foot. Such as when the offense comes into their front court and the D is in a zone. If the D is actively engaging the dribbler I will count.

so if the D is within the 6' range with the O dribbling in place, D is in a defensive stance but not swiping or mirroring the ball, just in stance within 6', do you count? How is "actively guarding the dribbler" defined?

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Hmmm. Is there a rule basis for this? Sounds like a Kansas thing.

ouch, you cut me to the bone Rules basis would be the rule regarding LGP, imo. Just because a player is on the floor, does not mean he is guarding. However, if he is in a normal guarding postion, I will count. It would not be fair to the D if I waited until the dribbler was, say three feet, to start my count. It would be too difficult for the defender to react as quickly as he could at 6 feet. I'm just saying I use some judgement as I see the play. How do you call closely guarded?

[Coltdoggs]

If he's within 6' and in LGP we have to start the count....

[FrankHtown]

[QUOTE=. I've had an official that does Div I NCAA games that occasionally slums it and does HS varsity games ...



Excuse me, but what does that mean?

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

so if the D is within the 6' range with the O dribbling in place, D is in a defensive stance but not swiping or mirroring the ball, just in stance within 6', do you count? How is "actively guarding the dribbler" defined?

If he is in a defensive stance; yes I will count. Otherwise he feels like he has to move closer to get a closely guarded count, and that would put him at a disadvantage. He does not have to swipe to have a closely guarded call. But simply standing at the top of the key or other position in a zone does not necessarily equate to defensive stance or "actively guarding" imo. Other views??

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

so if the D is within the 6' range with the O dribbling in place, D is in a defensive stance but not swiping or mirroring the ball, just in stance within 6', do you count? How is "actively guarding the dribbler" defined?

"Actively guarding" has never been defined under the "closely guarded" rule. The only criteria ever needed was that the defender be "continuously guarding". As long as the defender stayed within 6 feet, they met the criteria needed to get a 5-second violation called, by rule.

It's taught differently, depending on local preferences. Some teach that the defender should be actively guarding if that they're at the 6 foot limit. Some go strictly by the rule; if the defender is within 6 feet, the count goes on. Some teach not to start or keep the count going until the defender closes to around 3 feet. Whatever is used in any area should be called consistently.

Jmo.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Splute

But simply standing at the top of the key or other position in a zone does not necessarily equate to defensive stance or "actively guarding" imo. Other views??

If a defender is simply standing at the top of the key and is within 6 feet of the player with the ball, he has met the criteria needed to be "closely guarding" under the rules. There is not, and never has been, any requirement for a defender to be in a guarding stance. They just have to be within 6 feet of the player with the ball.

Some areas don't follow the rule as written. They use their own philosophy of calling it. Shrug.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Splute

If he is in a defensive stance; yes I will count. Otherwise he feels like he has to move closer to get a closely guarded count, and that would put him at a disadvantage. He does not have to swipe to have a closely guarded call. But simply standing at the top of the key or other position in a zone does not necessarily equate to defensive stance or "actively guarding" imo. Other views??

What about the first sentance of 4-23-1? "Guarding is the act of legal placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent." It doesn't say anything about "defensive stance", "actively guarding", or any other such term. In Art. 2, it states to obtain an initial legal guarding position, both feet must be on the playing court, and the front of the torso must be facing the opponent. Standing there chomping on gum (as long as they are facing the opponent) counts as "guarding", according to the rules.

[jer166]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Some areas don't follow the rule as written. They use their own philosophy of calling it. Shrug.

Most of the time it is not the unit but just some their officials. And most of the time they are the first ones to condem another who disregards a rule or mistakenly applies it. Then the rule is the gospel, never to be overlooked or misapplied. Go figure!