When to stop closely guarded count?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

and closely guarded count starts when the front foot of the ball handler and the front foot of the defender are within 6', correct?

Originally Posted by jer166

correct per 4-10

Hold on.

4-10 says nothing about either player's feet, neither does 9-10 and neither do any case plays.

So this is *incorrect* per 4-10.

I'm still waiting for someone to post something relating to how to measure the 6 feet other than the 2 players need to be 'within' 6 feet.

[FrankHtown]

Maybe it is a Texas thing, but the interpretation we use is that the defender has to be doing more than standing there, even within 6 feet.

I'm thinking the logic is: If the defender is attempting to play defense (and we can get into what "continuously guarded" means until we are all sick) and is within 6 feet, start the count.

On the other hand, the mere presence of an offensive player within the defender's 6 foot "halo" does not mean we reward the defender if he/she is making no attempt to defend, since they are not "continuously guarding."

It sounds like Texas follows the rule as written.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Hold on.

4-10 says nothing about either player's feet, neither does 9-10 and neither do any case plays.

Yes it does - in the 2007-08 Rules.

You're right, it doesn't say that in the 2006-07 book.

[FrankHtown]

2007-2008 rules page 30 Rule 4-10....blah, blah, blah "The distance shall be measured from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball handler." more blah, blah, blah

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

2007-2008 rules page 30 Rule 4-10....blah, blah, blah "The distance shall be measured from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball handler." more blah, blah, blah

Interesting. As I said I'm looking in the 2006/2007 book, which does not have those words.

Thanks.

[jer166]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Hold on.

4-10 says nothing about either player's feet, neither does 9-10 and neither do any case plays.

So this is *incorrect* per 4-10.

I'm still waiting for someone to post something relating to how to measure the 6 feet other than the 2 players need to be 'within' 6 feet.

I must be using the California book...

[Y2Koach]

[QUOTE=FrankHtown][QUOTE=. I've had an official that does Div I NCAA games that occasionally slums it and does HS varsity games ...



Excuse me, but what does that mean?[/QUOTE]

It means this guy does a great job on the NCAA level, but always seem very indignant while doing HS games and speaks to everyone in a very condescending manner while doing these HS games. For example, 17 year old girl accidentally resets shot clock on a jump ball in the 2nd quarter, he comes to the table to figure out what the clock should be set at and mutters "I never have to deal with this sh!t at a _____ (college conference) game". Or telling a defensive player "if you can't touch him, I ain't counting, you'll never go D1 playing defense like that" when the defensive player asks why he's not counting during a dead ball.

[Splute]

Yes I agree that is what is stated. Is that what is intended? that the offense can walk into a closely guarded state without the defense having to move a muscle? hum... interesting.. Lets assume that 4 of the D is setup on the 3 point arc, spread equally apart around it and the 5th is in the paint. the dribbler comes into his FC and within 6' of the D at the top of the key and maintains this 6' distance but moves around the arc. The defense never moves. By rule the closely guarded count would continue as the dribbler goes by each defensive player. and the defense can be picking their nose. Is that really what we are trying to Ref here? That seems to run in conjunction with the 3-second violation.

[truerookie]

I think we need to take a poll.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by jer166

I must be using the California book...

...more likely you're not looking at last year's book.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Splute

Yes I agree that is what is stated. Is that what is intended? that the offense can walk into a closely guarded state without the defense having to move a muscle? hum... interesting.. Lets assume that 4 of the D is setup on the 3 point arc, spread equally apart around it and the 5th is in the paint. the dribbler comes into his FC and within 6' of the D at the top of the key and maintains this 6' distance but moves around the arc. The defense never moves. By rule the closely guarded count would continue as the dribbler goes by each defensive player. and the defense can be picking their nose. Is that really what we are trying to Ref here? That seems to run in conjunction with the 3-second violation.

Your point being?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Interesting. As I said I'm looking in the 2006/2007 book, which does not have those words.

It's an unannounced addition to 4-10 in the 2007-08 rule book. The FED added the sentence "The distance shall be measured from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball handler." There was no mention of the addition in the front of the book or under "new rules changes" at the back. Iow, they just snuck the l'il mother in.

Can I say "mother"? Or should I say "father"?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's an unannounced addition to 4-10 in the 2007-08 rule book. The FED added the sentence "The distance shall be measured from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball handler." There was no mention of the addition in the front of the book or under "new rules changes" at the back. Iow, they just snuck the l'il mother in.

Can I say "mother"? Or should I say "father"?

What does your inner female say?

(Actually, isn't it spelled, "mutha"?)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Thanks, I knew my math was off somewhere and im sitting at work going crazy trying to figure out how I was off by 1' 3".

Either way, that distance of 6' should be close enough to start counting, regardless of "pressure applied" to the ball handler.

Agreed.

Also note that on a standard HS court, it's *about* 12' from the edge of the center circle to the top of the key. So, if the defender is at the top of the key, the offensive player must be 1/2 way between to start a count.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

It means this guy does a great job on the NCAA level, but always seem very indignant while doing HS games and speaks to everyone in a very condescending manner while doing these HS games. For example, 17 year old girl accidentally resets shot clock on a jump ball in the 2nd quarter, he comes to the table to figure out what the clock should be set at and mutters "I never have to deal with this sh!t at a _____ (college conference) game". Or telling a defensive player "if you can't touch him, I ain't counting, you'll never go D1 playing defense like that" when the defensive player asks why he's not counting during a dead ball.

What it really means is that this guy has no business working a HS game. He should quit HS and let someone who cares and is excited to be there get the contest.