Tech on Coach situation

Originally Posted by bigdog5142

Had a 8th grade girls game today...partner T's up coach...real jerk of a lady. Anyway...I explain to her that she must sit for the rest of the game as per rule. She goes on to say that I don't know what I'm talking about...I tell her that she can look in the rule book. Anyway...she sits down and instructs her assistant coach to stand up. I was so taken back and couldn't place the rule about bench personnel sitting, so I allowed it. I should've ran the coach later...but I'm getting my "legs" back under me...I'm chalking it up to remembering how to blow my whistle as I've back in officiating after about a 7 year break. How would you handle this one?

The only person who can stand is the head coach. And he/she can only stand to "instruct players", then must sit. While most are lenient on this rule, if the head coach starts chirping I warn him that he can only stand to instruct players then must sit. If it becomes a problem, T him/her up. All coaching box privileges lost.

Under NO circumstances can an assistant coach stand. After what you described, I would issue a bench technical on the assistant which is also an indirect on the head coach. Normally, if I see an assistant stand or address me or my call, I immediately warn the head coach and ANY further infraction is a T.

It is not your job to explain the rules to the head coach. He has a rules book just like you and is required to attend the state rules meeting(s).

Rec ball / noncompetitive might require different tact.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

The only person who can stand is the head coach. And he/she can only stand to "instruct players", then must sit. While most are lenient on this rule, if the head coach starts chirping I warn him that he can only stand to instruct players then must sit. If it becomes a problem, T him/her up. All coaching box privileges lost.

Where may I find this in the rule book?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Where may I find this in the rule book?

10.5.1: "...for the purpose of coaching his team." Standing silent is not coaching. Kneeling and watching the play is not coaching (and it's dangerous for the refs). Yelling at me is not coaching.

case 10.5.1.E: last sentence. "...if he/she wishes to stand when permitted under the optional coaching box privileges."

Furthermore, The Kansas State HS Activities Association announcements publication states "The head coach may: 1) Stand to instruct (coach) then, 2) sit down, 3) not kneel, squat, pace, or stand during a live ball."

Again, there is some leniency, but if the rule was intended that the head coach could remain standing the entire game, the rule would state, "While in the confines of the coaching box, the head coach may remain standing during all live ball situations." It doesn't. It states "for the purpose of coaching".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

10.5.1: "...for the purpose of coaching his team." Standing silent is not coaching. Kneeling and watching the play is not coaching (and it's dangerous for the refs). Yelling at me is not coaching.

case 10.5.1.E: last sentence. "...if he/she wishes to stand when permitted under the optional coaching box privileges."

Furthermore, The Kansas State HS Activities Association announcements publication states "The head coach may: 1) Stand to instruct (coach) then, 2) sit down, 3) not kneel, squat, pace, or stand during a live ball."

Again, there is some leniency, but if the rule was intended that the head coach could remain standing the entire game, the rule would state, "While in the confines of the coaching box, the head coach may remain standing during all live ball situations." It doesn't. It states "for the purpose of coaching".

Are you serious? You'd actually "T"up a coach for just standing in his box, watching play and not saying a thing?

Lah me......you're making up your own rules.....again.

Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Are you serious? You'd actually "T"up a coach for just standing in his box, watching play and not saying a thing?

Lah me......you're making up your own rules.....again.

Good luck with that.

No I would not. Read that I said we are very lenient. Don't be selective in your reading. I just told you what the "letter of the law was", as you asked.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

No I would not. Read that I said we are very lenient. Don't be selective in your reading. I just told you what the "letter of the law was", as you asked.

And I'm telling you that according to the rules, you are wrong. There is nothing in the NFHS rule book that states that a coach can't stand in his box and quietly watch the play. There never has been anything in the NFHS rules that say that a coach can't stand in the box and quietly watch the play. If you have special rules coverage for your state, hey, that's fine. But that sureasheck doesn't mean your state's interpretation of coaching box decorum is any good any other place. It isn't.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And I'm telling you that according to the rules, you are wrong. There is nothing in the NFHS rule book that states that a coach can't stand in his box and quietly watch the play. There never has been anything in the NFHS rules that say that a coach can't stand in the box and quietly watch the play. If you have special rules coverage for your state, hey, that's fine. But that sureasheck doesn't mean your state's interpretation of coaching box decorum is any good any other place. It isn't.

Hey, if you feel that "coaching his team" is him sitting in the box in a yoga position humming a mantra, then good for you.

Bottom line, I let him stand as long as he wants - until I get a visible display (inciting the crowd type). Then I inform him how my state association interprets the NFHS rule.

I also will MAKE them stand if they are kneeling as I do not want to end my season or his with a knee to his head.

"It isn't" applies to your state's interp as well. Unless you can show me definitively where I am wrong about this, (case, etc.), then you would be wise to open up to the possibility......

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

Furthermore, The Kansas State HS Activities Association announcements publication states "The head coach may: 1) Stand to instruct (coach) then, 2) sit down, 3) not kneel, squat, pace, or stand during a live ball."

You guys in Kansas have it too easy...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

10.5.1: "...for the purpose of coaching his team." Standing silent is not coaching. Kneeling and watching the play is not coaching

What if the coach is silently watching how the other team's defense reacts to screens, in order to figure which play to call next trip down the floor? What if he quietly watching which sub comes in, so he can figure how to set up his defense?

Are you saying that, by virtue of being silent, a coach is not coaching?

How does a coach, kneeling in his box, pose a threat to an official?

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

What if the coach is silently watching how the other team's defense reacts to screens, in order to figure which play to call next trip down the floor? What if he quietly watching which sub comes in, so he can figure how to set up his defense?

Are you saying that, by virtue of being silent, a coach is not coaching?

How does a coach, kneeling in his box, pose a threat to an official?

Again, leniency. I am only saying - use it as a tool to control a coach. However, he is not "coaching his PLAYERS" by silently watching and misses the intent of the rule. "Coaching is the process of inspiring, encouraging, motivating, and instructing." It is active. I ref deaf schools and they coach silently - not the same thing as standing with arms folded.

Next time you run a 3-man and you are the Center running up the sideline near OOB where you should be, with a coach kneeling at the sideline, you'll figure it out.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

Again, leniency. I am only saying - use it as a tool to control a coach. However, he is not "coaching his PLAYERS" by silently watching and misses the intent of the rule. "Coaching is the process of inspiring, encouraging, motivating, and instructing." It is active.

So, figuring out which play to call, which defense to use, which player to counter the other team's sub - this is not considered coaching? Where do I find your definition of coaching? Where do I find your interpretation of the intent of the coache's box?

Originally Posted by KSRef07

Next time you run a 3-man and you are the Center running up the sideline near OOB where you should be, with a coach kneeling at the sideline, you'll figure it out.

What I'll figure out is I need to watch where I'm going. It is exactly the same as the sub kneeling in front of the table waiting to come into the game. The coach has every right to be in the box, kneeling, standing, or humming show tunes, and it's my job to make sure I know where I'm going. If I step on a player's foot while they're sitting on the bench, should I T them up? Should I move them to the locker room because they got in my way?

[26 Year Gap]

Is it a coincidence that KSref joined this month and Old School has been gone for about a month?

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, figuring out which play to call, which defense to use, which player to counter the other team's sub - this is not considered coaching? Where do I find your definition of coaching? Where do I find your interpretation of the intent of the coache's box?


What I'll figure out is I need to watch where I'm going. It is exactly the same as the sub kneeling in front of the table waiting to come into the game. The coach has every right to be in the box, kneeling, standing, or humming show tunes, and it's my job to make sure I know where I'm going. If I step on a player's foot while they're sitting on the bench, should I T them up? Should I move them to the locker room because they got in my way?

"So, figuring out which play to call, which defense to use, which player to counter the other team's sub - this is not considered coaching?"

Not "coaching PLAYERS". When he is "figuring out", who is he coaching at that moment? No one. This is clarified by many state associations like ours. Check with yours.

I previously stated the interps. Go back a few posts.

Never said anything about a T for the coach kneeling. You can say all you want until you tear an ACL because you "didn't look where you were going" one time and because a coach was kneeling where he shouldn't be. I'm not assigning fault under that circumstance, just trying to provide some useful experiential information to consider.

[brandan89]

I personally dont see where that would be considered dangerious, but thats just me. Im also not to sure that I would MAKE him stand if he was kneeling??

Originally Posted by brandan89

I personally dont see where that would be considered dangerious, but thats just me. Im also not to sure that I would MAKE him stand if he was kneeling??

I want to be able to see him out of the corner of my eye when I am running but looking back/sideways. When a coach is sitting during one pass, then mysteriously appears (or doesn't ) kneeling at the sideline as you turn to go upcourt....

Trust me. Have seen many crash and burns.