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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 10:35pm
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Traveling philosophies....

So I'm working a men's college summer league. Mostly D-2 and D-3 teams. Some D-1 refs observe the games and give some input to the officials after the game (the games are being reffed by men's CC and D-3 officials).

I'm watching the game before mine. A player does the "replant" move before shooting a 3-pointer in transition (the replant was supposed to be a big point of emphasis around here in college games last season - meaning the player catches the ball with both feet on the ground and then does the little hop and lands on both feet again before shooting). Of course, the 3-pointer goes in and the official has to wave off the basket because of the travel violation. At halftime, I listen in to the D-1 ref/observer as he tells the official that he is "ruining the game" and to only call travels that are obvious to everyone in the gym. OK, point taken. I don't guess on travels anyway, but I will adjust and not call one unless it's obvious to even a novice fan. The D-1 ref/observer who made the comment is an absolute stud with more than one men's final four game on his resume.

In my game, I am at the C position right before the end of the half. A drive comes out of the T's area and goes at the hoop right down the middle of the key. A1 loses control of the ball and bobbles it as he takes about 3 steps before throwing up an off-balance shot. The T has no call. I don't have a call either and the horn sounds to end the half. Of course, there were about 10 fans who were whining because no travel was called but what do they know? So our D-1 ref/observer comes out (another guy that I have huge respect for) and looks at the T and says, "why didn't you call a travel?" He says, "the player was bobbling the ball and did not have control." The observer says, "call the travel." "Just make it easy on yourself and call the travel in that case. Nobody will say a word if you do."

Now I totally understand where those philosophies come from. They come from the assignors that those two refs work for. If you are going to stick around, you darn well better call what your assignor wants. No problem, I can do that. Those two D-1 refs are at the highest levels and can adjust to call the game anyway they are asked.

However, when I look at the "big picture" of basketball, I really think these kinds of philosophies hurt the game overall. Just my two cents. Interested in hearing other thoughts.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 11:21pm
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The first travel you described pains me to see. I have to admit letting it go a lot more times than I've called it. Of course when I do call it, it always come with grief from coaches and fans. An explanation of what I saw never is satisfying. Why? Because it is not called very often.

The "no control" travel is one that I understand the logic, but it isn't right either. If we want to stay out of trouble when entering a gym we should buy a ticket instead officiating. If I'm in front of the coach and he wants travel I just give a quick football mechanic (I know...it isn't really a football mechanic either) with my hands that says no control.

However, if someone higher up is telling me how to call such plays, I will try to abide by their wishes.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 11:27pm
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Are they hurting the game? What exactly IS the game? Padgett is asking in another thread whether HS and NCAA rules be the same The practical answer is, it wouldn't matter. The rules aren't what are in the book. The rules are whatever the assigner and the big dogs say they are. As much as we'd all like to think that what's in the book is absolute, this little anecdote reminds us that it just isn't.

Are they hurting the game? That's a great philosophical question. But the reality is they are defining the game.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 01:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
Are they hurting the game? That's a great philosophical question. But the reality is they are defining the game.
The reality is that they're turning the game into the NBA, which sureashell isn't a good thing. Coaches, players, fans and even us officials don't know what's going to be called on any particular play. There's no uniformity in rules-calling because they aren't calling by the rules. It's just plain wrong imo.

What constantly amazes me is that some big dawgs refuse to follow some very explicit NCAA directives and POE's. The sad part is that they do so while other big dawgs are.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 02:05am
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Whether we like it or not, officiating is a very subjective thing. All we have here are two officials that disagree on what needs to be called or how to navigate the game. Welcome to the real world because that happens on a daily basis at every camp I have ever attended. You can show a single play only to have different opinions as to what a call should have been or how the rule should be applied. This is just another example of how officials see different things. I do not think their comments are representative of anything other than their opinions. And without seeing the plays, it is hard to tell if there really is any merit to what was told. After all traveling is a judgment call. This is why this is the most inconsistent rule applied at all levels.

BTW JR, I see a lot of travel calls made at the NBA level. I have watched five minutes of some games and seen 3 straight trips with a travel call. It is just a call that is not called very consistently at all levels.

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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 05:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
1) Whether we like it or not, officiating is a very subjective thing. All we have here are two officials that disagree on what needs to be called or how to navigate the game. Welcome to the real world because that happens on a daily basis at every camp I have ever attended. You can show a single play only to have different opinions as to what a call should have been or how the rule should be applied. This is just another example of how officials see different things. I do not think their comments are representative of anything other than their opinions.

2) BTW JR, I see a lot of travel calls made at the NBA level. I have watched five minutes of some games and seen 3 straight trips with a travel call. It is just a call that is not called very consistently at all levels.
1) A good example supporting what you're saying might be Tim Donaghy. From what I've read, the great majority of his calls were subjectively judged by NBA observers as being correct and proper. He was rated above average in calling accuracy. Now, they're re-reviewing all of his calls--again supposedly subjectively.

2) True dat, but what's sad is that the supposedly top level, the NBA, probably is leading in inconsistency on travel calls imo.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 07:19am
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Replant vs Jump Stop Question

Is there a possibility that a replant can be interpretted as a "jump stop"?
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 07:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebraman
A player does the "replant" move before shooting . . .At halftime, I listen in to the D-1 ref/observer as he tells the official that he is "ruining the game" and to only call travels that are obvious to everyone in the gym.
I have also seen this travel, called it, and been told that it's not "one that we have to have". I don't call it anymore. But I really hate the "replant".

Quote:
"Just make it easy on yourself and call the travel in that case. Nobody will say a word if you do."
This is where I personally draw the line and if it hurts me, so be it. (Your judgment on travels is not what is going to make or break your officiating career, anyway -- I hope.) I'm not going to intentionally make a call that I know is not supported by rule. No control, no travel. Period. If the coach complains, I have two or three quick phrases to tell him why I didn't call it. "No control, coach"; "Fumble, coach"; "He never had it, coach". If I'm too far from the coach to talk, I give the "bobble" signal that somebody else mentioned.

I once had a guy with a lot more experience than me at the D3 level once give me the same advice that you got, except it was about goaltending. Defender hit the backboard while trying to block the shot. Coach complained, but I couldn't respond because I was away from the bench. In the locker room, my partner says, "I think if you just score that basket, nobody would even say a word." Well, fine; but it would be completely incorrect by rule!

Just my thoughts. If somebody else feels like they have to do things a certain way to survive, then you do what you have to do.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 07:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTheRef
Is there a possibility that a replant can be interpretted as a "jump stop"?
The replant is usually a catch with two feet on the floor and then a little hop to a different spot. Also, very commonly, the player catches the ball with one foot on the floor then steps with the other foot (legal so far), but then lifts and replants the first foot to "square up" to the basket. Both pretty obviously are travels.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 08:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTheRef
Is there a possibility that a replant can be interpretted as a "jump stop"?
Not correctly.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 08:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Also, very commonly, the player catches the ball with one foot on the floor then steps with the other foot (legal so far), but then lifts and replants the first foot to "square up" to the basket. Both pretty obviously are travels.
Also known as Larry Bird's step-back and shoot move over the 3-point line without dribbling.....

Often emulated to this day.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 09:20am
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In one game last year, I called the replant travel, and not 2 minutes later, at the other end, a shooter did a perfect jump stop on the catch (caught in the air, jumped off one foot and landed perfectly on both) before shooting. I let it go, and the first coach went ballistic for a moment. I wasn't in a position to discuss it with him, but it seemed to be forgotten about pretty quickly.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 09:27am
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Often we make calls/no calls based on advantange/disadvantage.

Are these two situations under the same umbrella?

I would say that a replant often does cause an advantage more times than not. There are times where there is no advantage. By rule, still a travel.

The no control fumble probably is not a play where advantage is gained as much, although it can occur. By rule, not a travel.

Good topic to bring up in my opinion. Tends to be very subjective.
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 09:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebraman
A player does the "replant" move before shooting a 3-pointer........

It is a bad sign when a violation has been committed so much it has its own name. I have made this call many times, and I am aware that others do not call it. I see this much more often at the varsity level than at lower levels, which, to me, means it is conscious, not careless. Also, while it is sometimes a step back to create space from a defender, many times it is done with no defender in the picture. This says to me that it was done either a. for show
or b. for no reason at all. (same thing really) This makes me even less inclined to be "tolerant."
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Old Mon Jul 30, 2007, 10:26am
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So basically, when catching the ball (on the move) it's legal to take two steps w/out a dribble & then pass or shoot?

But catching the ball (while stationary) one needs to make a dribble before taking those two steps to be considered legal?

The travel is one tricky call because of the speed of the game. But the inconsisitency of partners contribute to the bad/good travel calls as well.




I've worked with highly respected HS playoff/championship vets who never make the "replant or step back" travel call, but will use the travel signal for a designated spot violation.... go figure.

I think I'm starting to figure this officiating game out as the off-season progresses though. Basically, the more "trusted & respected" an official is the less his/her calls are scutinized. It seems as though once a certain level is atained, an official can be wrong as two left shoes & get by better than a not so respected official who is completely right.

Example:
I gotta double personal foul in the post, reported it & tried to go POI, w/no shots. The R who I was working with (highly respected by coaches/players/fans/assignors) says no POI & went with a jump ball (ummm yes there was indeed team possession when I blew the whistle).

Later in the SAME game A1 laying on the ground tries to pass to A2 (standing near the Team B bench) the ball goes over A2s head, out of bounds & is caught by a B team member sitting on the bench. I hit the 40, give a verbal & directional signal favoring Team B.
Mr. Championship tells me at halftime that I should've given the ball back to Team A because Team B bench caught the ball. HUH?????
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